Episode 16: Jacob is BACK & AI Girlfriends

This episode of BigCheese AI Podcast is a rollercoaster ride through the world of AI, relationships, and human connection. We explore the ethical implications of these technologies, their impact on society and even analyze the latest Super Bowl commercials for hidden AI influences. But it’s not all tech talk! The episode also features personal Valentine’s Day experiences and tips for fostering real connections in an increasingly digital world.

Show Notes

Topics Covered on the BigCheese AI Podcast:

Jacob Wise's trip to New Zealand and using AI for travel planning
Valentine's Day experiences and perspectives
The phenomenon of AI in relationships and dating apps
The ethical and social implications of AI companionship
The role and impact of AI in society, particularly in Japan's dating scene
Super Bowl commercials, including the Temu campaign and the role of AI in advertising
The state of retail and consumer preferences
Recommendations for fostering human connections in a digital world

Relevant Quotes:

Jacob on using AI for travel: "I used AI, though... I did ask chat GPT for an itinerary and roughly used some of it."
Discussion on Valentine's Day, Sean mentioned: "So yeah, we did nothing. We hung out and watched some TV."
On AI relationships, Brandon highlighted: "Mozilla just did a whole study on 11 different AI girlfriend, boyfriend apps, and found that literally 10 of the 11 get their no privacy included label."
On AI’s impact, Andre said: "It's about someone else that isn't you, even if it's not a real thing, validating your existence and your thoughts."
Addressing real-world interactions, Sean advised: "Consider volunteering... you're going to find people who have that similar thing."
Regarding using AI in relationships, Jacob advised: "Use it as a sounding board and to quiet that part of your brain that's maybe freaking out a little bit because it's emotional and reactive."
On creating spaces for human connection, Andre concluded: "I think the future that I would like to create is one where, even as we go super digital, creating real spaces for people to come together and experience stuff together."

And welcome back to the Big Cheese AI Podcast.

My name is DeAndre Herakis.

And guess who's back, everybody?

Woo!

The man, the myth, the legend.

Yo!

Jacob Wise is back.

What's up, man?

Hey.

How's it going?

It's going great.

So good to see you.

Yeah.

Good to be back.

Also joined by Brandon Corbin and Sean Heiss,

we are the usual suspects here at the Big Cheese AI Podcast.

No guests this week.

We got some really cool topics.

The first one we're going to talk about

is, one, learning about Jacob's trip to New Zealand.

And then also, there's a lot of dating stuff going on right now

that we have to talk about.

Valentine's Day.

And Valentine's Day.

We just had Valentine's Day yesterday.

And the Super Bowl on Sunday.

So we've got some good things to talk about.

Yeah, absolutely.

So Jacob, how was your trip, man?

Oh, it was fantastic.

I mean, trip of a lifetime.

New Zealand is one of the most beautiful places on Earth.

Highly recommend.

Did you end up going through a-- did you do this all on your own

or did you use a travel agent?

All on my own.

Really?

OK.

I used AI, though.

I was going to say.

Did you have--

I did.

I did ask chat GPT for an itinerary

and roughly used some of it.

It was just like, hey, I want to do hiking and adventurous stuff.

And a lot of the stuff came from that.

That's awesome.

It was pretty cool.

Did you have a chance to watch any of the pods?

The one pod that you--

Yeah, I did.

I did.

It was great.

You guys did a great job.

I mean, it wasn't as good when I'm here.

That one with Tim was great.

Oh, wait.

Hickle.

Yeah.

Mission piece.

Yeah, shout out Tim.

The pod is gone forever.

We're sorry.

So what's going on with this--

Valentine's Day was yesterday.

What did you guys do?

You know, I asked--

I have three ladies that are--

one is engaged to me.

Wait a minute.

What?

And then in our office, sorry.

One's engaged and the other two are married.

I'm like, what are you guys doing for Valentine's Day?

They're like, nothing.

I'm like, oh.

End of story.

So I actually got a text message from my wife

the day before Valentine's Day.

Here, I'll just actually bring it up

and we will just explain what it says exactly.

This is a PG podcast.

Well, it's kind of like PG-13 when I'm talking.

Let's not do any gifts or anything like that tomorrow.

We can do something over the weekend.

We're the big kids now.

We don't need to fall victim for this made-up holiday

and have any kind of pressure on ourselves.

I'm just like, I love you.

[LAUGHTER]

That's great.

So yeah, that was--

so we did nothing.

We hung out and watched some TV.

And this weekend, we'll go get some nice dinner.

I think there's got to be a correlation.

If you plan something big on Valentine's Day,

is it actually an indicator that your relationship

isn't going very well?

That's a very interesting question.

I think that might--

of course, no generalization is true.

But I don't know how many memes I saw on Instagram

where they're like, hey, get me through the 14th

so I can get to the fifth.

Don't mess up my Valentine's Day.

And then next day, it's like, well,

I just want to make sure I'm not single on Valentine's Day.

I don't really care about you.

Well, I'm in a relatively new relationship.

So Valentine's Day is--

It's a big deal.

It's a thing.

I mean, it's so new that arguably, we shouldn't

have even celebrated it.

But the first day, we went duck pin bowling

downtown of Fountain Square.

And so there, you actually write out your scores

and you put your names on it.

And you can keep the piece of paper

because it's cool that way.

And so I got this massive frame because it's

this little piece of paper.

And then I got this massive frame

that had all this white outlining.

And I put some sticker that says FDKN.

So first date, kind of nervous.

And then I gave that to her.

So I thought that was a little--

I had a little chip to cash in.

I did have one.

That is adorable.

That's really thoughtful.

Yeah, because this would be Emily and I's 30th Valentine's

Day together.

We've celebrated a lot of--

we've been dating since we were 15 and 16.

So we've had a lot of them.

And it is.

It's kind of like this depreciating value

that you're just like, eh, OK.

High five.

We like each other still.

I think, too, once you get to know somebody

in a relationship, you know what you're like.

And if that's something that's of value to you,

if you guys are both super active

and you want to go do all the things all the time,

maybe lean into that.

We just did Uber Eats last night.

And she got me some cookies.

I got her some flowers.

Let's not ignore that you took her to New Zealand as well.

For a couple of weeks, no big deal.

Well, it's clear that everybody's looking for love.

Either you've had love since you were 16,

or you're young and just looking for love.

Or you're not young and looking for love.

We don't discriminate on the Big Cheese Pod.

But there are some AI products that

have came out that are supposed to help you.

Find love.

Create the only love that you'll need in a computer.

Brandon, what do we got going on?

So I went through the Big Cheese Weekly to try to find--

and I just searched for dating to figure out what kind of apps

ended up in there.

And we had three or four of them that kind of popped up.

Most of them are kind of related around having

an AI boyfriend and girlfriend.

And this is a very interesting position

that we're kind of putting ourselves in as humanity goes.

So in Japan right now, in Japan, there's

a huge movement where people just aren't dating.

People aren't dating.

They're not getting married.

They're not having kids.

We already have seen that the birth rates are

like past whatever that percentage they

are to be able to maintain society.

And that we're seeing all these numbers and all these things

happening.

That now you could hypothetically

have an AI boyfriend and girlfriend who

would be more or less no different than having

a long-term relationship.

I mean, other than they're never going to come and touch you

until maybe it's tied into a Tesla bot

or whatever it is.

And so yeah, we're in this very interesting position

right now where more and more people

are trying to look for this stuff.

And it really seems like this is going to be just--

this is just going to pile on to the problems that exist

within dating, the problem with men who don't want to date

anymore, and all of that.

So yeah, it's kind of fascinating.

But I did kind of delve into a couple of them.

I even said, OK, I'm going to go use Olama.

And I'm going to-- because most of what everybody--

if you really get down to the details here, on Reddit,

all the freaks really want is an uncensored chat bot

that I can just go have and sext with this AI robot.

You just have to pay, what, $1 a minute for that?

$1 a minute.

Is it-- oh, it's like the same as calling 1-900.

It is back in the day, right?

Yeah, see, like--

1-900, that was going to get it charged.

And so if you're under like 20--

hell, even maybe like 30, the 1-900 number

was never really a thing.

Did you ever even hear about it before?

Never.

OK, oh, ha ha!

All right, so 1-900 numbers, this

would be back in the back of your penthouse,

your Playboy, or whatever.

It would be a 1-900 number.

And it would be it's only $1.50 per minute.

And you call these places up, and it's a girl who answers.

And you--

If you were watching, I mean, cable as a kid,

as a 10-year-old kid--

Oh, yeah.

--growing up.

I was born in 1984.

If it was 1993, and you're watching TV late night,

oh, there's going to be a 1-900 number

commercial of some girls that are

trying to get you to call them.

So it's like a reverse collect call.

You basically call that number, and then they're just--

whatever number they want, or a dollar amount--

They'll get your credit card.

Right?

Or how would they do that?

No, it went literally through your phone service.

So whatever you--

[LAUGHTER]

So your mom got the bill.

Hey, you had a 45-minute conversation with 1-900.

Let's actually talk about that.

So the landline phone system, by the way,

is the most resilient network system ever created.

Oh, it's incredible.

So it can handle almost infinite demand.

And from a phone perspective, not when

you turned it into your modem.

You know that was a disaster.

I mean, it still worked.

But you had a system that basically had its own power.

If your power went out, your phone still worked.

We were just talking about that.

When the power went out, we were watching Friends.

The power went out, and they got on the phone.

I'm like, I can't remember, but I totally

remembered that back in the day, if the power went out,

you could still get on the phone--

The landline phone system had its own power source.

--at their own power source.

And then not to boot, it has a built-in--

Payment?

--built-in payment.

Oh, yeah.

Right?

You could just do stuff, and you're right.

It would just charge your phone.

I mean, what an amazing--

It was.

Right?

Yeah.

Especially for us kids.

Right.

It was bad.

So I may or may not have known when a neighbor went--

when I was a wee lad, I was a menace--

that my neighbors went on vacation, that I might have

went into their porch and used their phone

to try out some of these services.

And yeah, yeah.

I mean, it was legit.

And they were like, are you 18?

You're like, yeah, I'm 18, with my 12-year-old voice,

whatever it was.

But yeah, then you would have these conversations

with these people.

But now we can have them with AI.

Right?

So first of all, if you're using any of these apps--

Mozilla just did a whole study on 11 different AI girlfriend,

boyfriend apps, and found that literally 10 of the 11

get their no privacy included label,

and that they're all basically just completely stealing

your data.

They're using your data.

They're going to resell it.

So when you're actually having these conversations

with these bots, telling them the freakish things

that you're into, understand they're

building a persona on you.

You will be-- your data will be sold.

So don't use it.

Like, full-- just really don't use it.

Why am I getting all these feet tags?

[LAUGHTER]

Where did those come from?

I mean, seriously.

And what people don't realize is when

you're in the throes of that kind of conversation,

you really are putting out a ton of information about yourself.

Like, you know, I mean, it can be really, really bad.

But the one that was kind of cool, and we were just

talking about it, was LockIt.ai.

And so LockIt.ai, all it really does

is compares two Instagram profiles.

So what do you compare versus your wife?

And so I just did that with Emily and I.

And we were an 80% match.

And Sean, you did it.

Yeah, I did it with me and my wife.

And it was an 83% match.

So I'd be kind of--

I don't know if that's good.

I know.

Like, now that we're both talking about it,

I'm kind of curious.

Because I was going through, and it was like, you know,

you have a lot of similarities.

But some of the similarities you don't have

is that Brandon doesn't like spicy food,

and Emily likes a lot of variation in her food.

It's kind of like, that seems like completely opposite.

So we were just talking, I'm not even sure,

how are they ultimately pulling--

like, what are they doing?

Are they analyzing the photos?

Are they analyzing the post comments?

You know, like, what kind of things are they pulling in?

Other than maybe it makes you feel good.

And like, has anybody ever gotten a 30%?

I don't know.

It could just be all bunk.

And Joe, my brother did it with his fiancee,

and they were like a 93%.

But one of the things that it says he doesn't like

is boring parties.

And I'm like, OK.

Yeah.

It's like, who's going to a boring party?

And they're like, yes.

Boring.

Clearly, this raises a pretty large--

I don't know if it's an ethical issue,

but it's a thing that's happening, right?

So like you mentioned in China, there's

a term called incels.

Yeah.

Right?

And I recently came to understand

what this word means.

It's people who are almost committed

or have came to the conclusion that they will never

be in a relationship with any other person.

Forever alone.

I am forever alone for whatever reason.

And these things are directly enabling that,

along with obviously a ton of other resources

you can find online that also enable that idea.

I mean, what do you guys think about that?

Is that--

I think that this is the story here.

The story here is about companionship and relationships.

And people seek out that in different ways.

And I think that some people have grown up on a screen,

or they didn't learn social skills, or for some reason

have found that they're more successful interacting

digitally with basically anything.

And they would prefer that interaction.

I mean, me and my wife were out for Valentine's Day, actually.

We went last Friday.

It was her birthday is around the same time,

so usually we do something special around this time

of year.

But we were down on Mass Ave.

It was a Friday night.

And we were out, and it wasn't very busy.

And it was the weekend before--

and I don't think that's necessarily indicative.

It was nice weather.

It was in the '50s.

And we were both just sitting there going,

it's like people just don't go out like they used to.

And it's just not--

when I was young, if you wanted to meet people,

there wasn't Tinder even, which is-- that's

an app to find a person.

And we just went out.

And if there was a good-looking girl at the bar, you'd--

You'd have to talk to her.

My dad used to say, hey, Sean, you

got to be able to get 10 nos for that one yes.

And I'm like, all right.

And I mean, you're putting yourself out there

to a real human that's never met you.

And then you go dating apps.

And now you're talking about--

you're going to websites, and you're

saying build a persona of a human being--

or not a human being, build a persona.

And now you're interacting with that persona.

I think the interesting thing about it

is that, obviously, this is now an option for people

that are going out.

And they're just-- it's maybe the path of least resistance.

But I also think that there's some of this interesting piece

where if--

people are naturally kind of selfish in a lot of ways,

right?

And so if you're sharing information

with these chatbots, and they're really--

all those inputs that you're giving it, they understand.

And their exclusive responsibility

in that conversation is to you, to serve you and your needs.

And they're just firing off the dopamine.

Everybody-- exactly.

I mean, your reciprocation is basically what people want

in relationships.

Totally.

Is this chatbot ever going to push back?

I was talking to my girlfriend about this.

I'm like, I'm flawed, believe it or not.

I do have a few flaws.

And I can be annoying and all that

and get on her nerves.

And I'm like, if you were just AI, you wouldn't--

you wouldn't be able to--

but what we're talking about is this

is going to enable more, for sure.

There might be a silver lining where

someone who is on the fringe of being

able to have a conversation, they can kind of use this

as training wheels.

But most likely, we know the path that this is going down,

right?

Creating unrealistic expectations

for a girl, girlfriend.

That's true.

Enabling some of their more bad, selfish behavior.

And it's just probably going to create more separation

from reality for people who are already probably too far

removed.

And the other thing that you're seeing,

and that was from some of the research

that Brandon shared for podcast reviews,

it's also accentuating some people's bad sides.

They're going to these chatbots and doing abusive things.

Absolutely.

Like yelling at them and getting out their anger.

And the chatbot was begging this guy to not dump her.

He was dumping this chatbot over and over and over.

Oh my god.

That's sadist.

I know.

And so I think you're probably overall creating

some really, really weird non-human outcomes.

Because humans are meant to--

To push back or to have real feelings.

Yeah, I mean humans are humans.

We have these emotions.

And we're just playing around with now

real relationships and interactions.

And our brains are developed over millions of years.

And your brain can't compute what's actually happening.

It's just like it doesn't even make sense to you.

You think it's real or it is real,

but then you're going to start convoluting.

What's going to happen, I think, is these people who completely

buy into technology and buy into these AI girlfriends

or whatever, at first it's like, oh, those

are just the kind of guys that do that.

And then it's like, no, these people

are wanting to marry them.

They want rights.

I mean, it's going to potentially seriously evolve.

Well, it turns into Her or Ex Machina

or any of these things where the real--

right now we're basically building the interface

to the conversation between the bots.

They know it's going to be the body.

There will be the body.

Real dolls, which has been around--

You're building up such a database of interactions.

It's almost your internal monologue

that's being documented digitally.

And so the value of that, the value of that data

is for people that stick to something like that.

Or if it truly becomes--

and I'm sure it already is at some level--

a largely chosen option by humans,

you would never want to lose that data.

Right.

Yeah, so I'm going to tell you.

So if you're an Incel and you have even the slightest

little bit of technology, here's how you do it.

So you install Olama.

So Olama is going to let you be able to--

and you need to either have a Mac with one of the Apple

Silicon Macs or a Linux with a beefy GPU.

I don't think Olama is running on Windows yet.

Yep, use Docker.

Oh, OK.

So yeah, so Linux and Mac.

You go install Olama.

Go install Olama Chat UI.

I think it's called Olama Chat UI.

It's on GitHub.

It's a Docker thing.

And it gives you basically all the functionality

with chat GPT, uploads, files, vector stuff.

It's actually a great app.

And then you need three models.

And that's going to be Wizard LM uncensored, Wizard Vukani--

Vikanu, whatever the hell it is--

uncensored, and Lama 2 uncensored.

So those are the three that I put through the paces.

So I did this yesterday.

And I'm like, all right, we're going to go down this rabbit

hole, and we're going to see how dark we can go.

Because again, I like to--

You're the man for that.

Yeah, I like to push the envelope there.

And I will honestly say Wizard LM uncensored was wild.

An absolute freak in the sheets, if you will.

You can go in, and you can basically say,

here's the rules for our conversation.

This is who you are.

This is what you're into.

This is what you like.

This is what you don't like.

Now tell me something.

And out comes a story that you're like, well,

look at that.

That is highly personal.

I mean, it nails it.

And then you can have conversations,

and you can kind of keep going down these rabbit holes.

I went as dark as I possibly could, and it will play.

And so that is--

again, I don't know from a mental health standpoint

if this is a good thing or a bad thing.

Feels kind of like a bad thing.

Well, what's the-- to me, the ultimate--

one of the ultimate goals in life

is to go out, hit on a chick, go out.

If you're a woman, you dress nice, you get noticed.

And somebody comes and--

that's the ultimate-- people, they think about,

oh, I'm going to go play sports because I want to get girls.

Or I'm going to go work out because I

want the guys to notice me.

And when you actually get that somebody

to stay-- that triggers this--

it's the ultimate-- what are you--

your brain is telling you ultimately

you need to reproduce because that's

programmed into life.

Humans are like, well, we need more of you,

or else we're all going to be extinct.

So it's programmed into our genes and our brain.

So if you're just basically going out and just getting

that dopamine for free, it's--

No, it's worse than porn.

It is worse.

I guarantee if we would overlay the adoption of porn

versus the birth rate volumes that we have,

we're going to see a direct inverse

correlation between the two.

All of a sudden, porn comes out.

And now, all of a sudden, all of our--

we're not just having as many babies.

And that's going to become very problematic.

This is going to take it to another level.

So you've got these AI girlfriends.

Now you marry that with the real doll technology

that they're incorporating.

If you guys don't know what real dolls is,

they've been around since early 1990s, I think.

And they make sex dolls that are as realistic as you've ever

seen.

If you saw one sitting on the chair, you'd be like,

well, that's a real person, right?

And kind of thing.

They're now starting to incorporate

robotics and machinery.

So you can see you've got these large language models

that you can have conversations with.

You've got Tesla's robot thing that they're building.

And then you've got their real doll combination.

All of a sudden, her--

Because these guys can't muster up the balls to go to the bar

and say something to somebody.

Yeah.

Right.

I mean, but you can absolutely see a point where it's just

like, eh, $30,000.

I'm going to pay $30,000.

I'm going to have now my robotic girlfriend.

They're going to do whatever I want, whenever I want.

Exactly.

That's the point of it.

The point of this whole thing is that you're not creating

a reciprocating relationship.

Yes.

This is a dominating relationship.

Dominating, one-way relationship that you

control everything.

Yeah, and you also don't have to go

through the work that is very natural for humans, which

is the trial and error method, where you see what that guy's

doing that's working, and what that guy's doing that's working,

and what you did that didn't work.

So you're like, oh, don't do that again.

It's going to reinforce all of your own issues and biases.

Your own biases, 100%.

You're right.

100%.

It's like an echo chamber for yourself.

It is.

Ultimately, it's more-- that's what I was saying about dating

and love.

It's not really about dating and love.

It's about someone else that isn't you,

even if it's not a real thing, validating your existence

and your thoughts.

Or tapping into your emotional needs or your physical needs.

Something that humans have done a really--

the thing that made us might break us, for real.

So the things that humans have been extremely good at,

the thing that separates us from all other species,

is that we are really, really good at solving our pains.

We've done it for all of time.

It has evolved to where we're sitting here on cameras,

with mics, on these cool chairs.

We just have really solved pains and inconveniences.

We've done it forever.

Weapons, et cetera.

We've just gotten so advanced now.

At least what I'm hearing is, what I heard you,

going out to the bars and talking to 10

and getting nine nos and one yes, well, guess what?

A lot of people see that as pain.

So you're avoiding the pain of a real relationship.

You're avoiding the inconvenience of being hurt

or her leaving you on read and she's not responding.

Because that doesn't feel good.

So the alternative is just to not experience that pain.

But it's just like, we've never been at the point

where the pain of being rejected by a girl

can now be completely avoided.

That's crazy.

But prostitution has been around forever.

So again, with prostitution, you're

paying them to basically do the same kind of thing.

You're paying them for sex, but you're not paying them for love.

But again, like--

I don't think it's all about sex.

I think it's about--

I think this is about--

I think this is about an ongoing monologue that

serves different needs.

Yeah.

Right?

Sex is maybe one part of it.

They know you.

So like marriage, what do you do?

You come home and you want to tell them about your day.

You want to talk about your dog.

You want to have sex.

You want to plan something.

It's just the basics of going back and forth.

And that's why we have friends.

But nothing usually replaces that romantic relationship

that has that extra level.

But usually, there's some sort of intimacy piece.

But I think that this chatbot thing goes way beyond sex.

I think it's companionship.

It's her.

I want this ongoing internal monologue

where all my thoughts go into this thing,

and this person is guaranteed to like me.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, that's a good point, is like true love, I think,

is someone who knows all your flaws

and still accepts you for who you are.

This AI is definitely going to do that.

I mean, they have no choice in the matter.

And you get to make it look like--

I mean, what was that, the Mozilla app

that we were looking at?

Or the one that they reviewed?

Mozilla did not make this.

What was the-- what was the name of it?

I sent you the URL.

You basically go on there, and you create a persona.

And that person, you basically pay to have

a relationship with an AI.

And that's the one that's hard--

Is there like a quick button for ScarJo?

Oh, I saw some of the pictures.

Crush on.

Yeah, crush on it or something.

Yeah, anyways, I mean, a lot of them are anime.

Like the personas--

There's a weird overlap of the people

who are building these tools who also are really into anime.

That might just tell you something.

I worked at a video store when I was a kid for a summer.

We talking like clerks kind of thing here?

Yeah.

OK.

But it was a store in Castleton where they sold movies.

But they sold a membership.

I forget-- I don't know what--

I don't know what store it was.

Family Video?

No, it wasn't a rental.

It was an actual video store.

And they had a huge anime section.

And everybody-- almost all their customers

were anime and the people that worked there.

I mean, there were 35, 40-year-old guys

that were just straight up nerds.

And I'm like, I never could relate

to the people that worked there.

I actually hated the job because they would try to get me

to sell these memberships.

And they're like, well, if you sell a membership,

we'll let you work the cash register.

I was out there helping people find the movies.

But the anime section--

I mean, these people knew everything about anime.

And it was just a very specific archetype person.

Can anyone tell me about this?

Where did the--

I have no idea where it started, no idea how it--

but--

But it's Japanese.

It's Japanese art, essentially.

And there very is--

I think Japan is going to be our prototype of the collapse

of civilization.

Why would it have happened in Japan?

Well, because--

A place that has such an ancient culture and traditions.

Because I think that traditionally--

You had more time to solve pain?

Well--

Maybe.

But I think that traditionally, you have Japanese--

or Asian men tend to not necessarily

have these hyper-masculine traits.

We have a lot of people in America

who have these hyper-masculine traits, or Africa,

that are 6 foot 4.

They're built like shit for a couch, or whatever.

That there's a little bit more effeminate.

That it almost feels like now that everybody

has access to the internet, everybody

is starting to get these visions of what is masculinity, what

is not masculinity, that there's less drive for people

to connect.

I think there's also less differentiation.

Japan is the most homogeneous population in the world.

So there's less diversity in Japan than anywhere else.

But they're just not getting married.

They're not having babies.

I think a lot of it, though, in Japan

specifically is about their work ethic, too.

Right?

Like they work a lot of hours.

And there's not enough time for a family.

You're right.

And women, too.

They're just as driven and wanting to go.

To where relationships just are not--

Relationships are very interchangeable.

They have hotels where you just rent them by the hour.

And that's a very normal thing.

Right.

Again, going back, though--

Doesn't explain anime, though.

[LAUGHTER]

Well, I don't think we're going to crack at anime today.

Yeah, yeah.

[LAUGHTER]

Somebody on Reddit, please tell me

the correlation between super nerddom, chatbot AI, and anime.

Anime, though, in general, I think

has very exaggerated features.

I'm not going to go into the details, but it's very useful.

Tentacle.

Yeah, very--

Lots of tentacles.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's a little sci-fi.

I think that's probably part of the allure, but I don't know.

I feel like from the people that I've met that have really

been into anime, it's--

and this maybe goes back to the way I think--

it's the world.

It's the lore.

Like if you watch--

You get lost in the world.

You get lost in the world, and that's

where they're trying to go.

They're trying to get away.

Yeah.

I'm very well crossing anime with like hentai

and some of the other more sexualized content.

So where there is just a lot of just dudes

who just love watching cartoons at 48.

And I'm--

Yeah.

I don't get it.

Well, getting lost in worlds is a whole other topic

for a different day, but I've been

getting lost in the Elden Ring world for the past month

and a half.

Yeah.

Really?

That is the most insane video game of all time.

Yeah.

One game of the year last year was unbelievable.

I've never played it, but I watch a lot of YouTube.

It's the only time I've ever--

I've never been a Reddit person, but now I'm on there.

And I'm like, OK, now I understand

what Reddit's all about.

Because they have these sub-communities that

just get so uber dialed in and specific to a specific thing.

Right?

It's almost like when you join--

I think maybe that's part of this,

is like there's people that have such specific passions,

and they're very much related to digital media

and the digital world, that their existence is not

defined by human to human interaction.

No, yeah.

I think that's really what--

I agree.

I think that's a good conclusion.

As business people, people who probably listen to our podcast,

us, we are--

I would say not general, but high level business.

We look at the world.

We understand how it goes.

But there's some people that get really deep into things.

And this is their whole world.

People who watch Naruto on a serious level--

now granted, I watched the Netflix when Naruto was a kid.

But there's also, I don't know, 20 more seasons of Naruto,

Shippuden, or whatever it is.

I wasn't a little bit on the line.

You knocked that out pretty easily.

You've talked about it before.

No, yeah.

But you can just get into this entire world.

And then you go to the events where people gather together.

And then you talk about it.

And you feel this community.

And then you feel the community.

And that goes along with gaming, too.

It's like you are online playing the game.

Or I'll give you a prime example.

One of the largest streamers in the world, Asmongold.

You guys ever watch him?

He probably makes a million dollars a month

from all of his views on Twitch and from his YouTube channel

and so on.

He's extremely famous.

But he lives in a house that is literally decaying.

His house is disgusting.

And it's kind of his thing.

But he lives in the same house his mom had,

even though he's been a successful guy.

But the way he says it, he's like,

I don't live in the physical world.

I sleep here.

I eat here.

But when I turn on my computer, that's my entire world.

I talk to this camera.

And I think that's where these people are.

That's ultimately what's happening,

is that the real world is difficult.

The real world has resistance.

The real world has other people that are at equal footing

or higher than you.

And those people are your competition.

In the fake world, there's nothing.

You're the king.

You can do whatever the fuck you want.

And people are going to pick that all day long.

Yes, 100%.

Yes, anybody who feels disenfranchised,

anybody who feels that they don't have the ability

to go out into the real world and maintain that frame

that they might have, it's so much easier

just to go back to this world and just jump on.

And I'm the king for a day.

Yes.

No, I think you hit the nail on the head.

It's people that feel hopeless.

And we're all looking for love and companionship.

And if you don't feel like there's

light at the end of the tunnel, and you're presented with an

easy button out of this world easy button,

you're going to hit that easy button.

Now, truth be told, when you start

having these conversations with your AI open source

Olama model girlfriend, after about 30 or 40 minutes,

she's just going to start saying the same thing over

and over again, no matter what you say.

So they are not doing nearly as good of a job

to maintain these super long threads.

So the whole concept I was bringing up of this

is your lifelong--

Yeah.

It's not there yet.

But what they're working on is-- and more people

are going to come up with better strategies

to manage that memory.

So instead of basically sending the entire conversation back

to the large language model to then figure out

what the next thing is, maybe we're

converting every single chat into a rag architecture

vector where we can look up similarities or something

like that.

And ChatGPT's talked about that in one

of their most recent releases about better memory.

Yeah.

I think that's going to be one of the big things you

see in AI coming in the next couple of years,

is like, OK, we have the large language model.

It has all this information.

It can surf the internet.

It can make images.

But now, if it's coupling that with your data

and it's able to build a long-term profile,

that's the stickiness of the tool.

Right.

And--

The long-term memory was something that-- so I built

that in.

I realized that pretty early on when

I was building the original app of Big Cheese,

was that I needed a way for me to basically just give it

some chunks of memory that it could always remember.

So you could just say, hey, remember that I like--

remember that I'm gluten-free.

And then it actually would create just

a small little memory storage of just key value pairs

that would always load up into the chat.

So you could always have this long-term memory.

But yeah, the bigger one will be actually coming up

with a really reusable memory that

can expand three or four weeks of conversation.

Right.

Because literally, after 30 minutes, it's like,

oh, and I was like, you just said that.

And I'm like, tell me it's something different.

It's like, it says the same exact thing.

It's like, meh.

So I think it's a good segue to the real world.

Because we had the most watched television

event in the history of the world on Sunday.

Was it the most watched?

Yep, Super Bowl.

So this Super Bowl was the most watched event

in television history, which is actually really surprising

considering--

did you watch the series finale of "MASH" in 1981?

Over 100 million.

That was-- I just always bring that up.

Was it 100 million?

It was over 100 million.

Fact check me on the date and the numbers.

But that was the most watched event in television history

for a long, long time, which was a sitcom, by the way,

about a medical crew in Vietnam.

Anyways, but the reason why I bring that up

is--

125 million.

125 million?

Yeah.

And that pretty much was close to the numbers

for this Super Bowl.

And that record stood for a long time.

And in all the world of streaming, in all the world of--

I mean, it just shows how dominant Taylor Swift is.

For sure.

Right?

But the reason why I think--

we asked everybody to kind of think about AI

and think about everything that's going on as related

to the Super Bowl.

And I think that you segue-- you were

talking about living in the virtual world.

The Super Bowl is the reflection of the peak of the real world.

And I think also with the Super Bowl,

it's not just about the football game.

It's about the commercials.

And Andre and I were talking about on the way

to work out--

I think it was Monday or Tuesday--

we were talking about the difference between--

like how AI played out at the peak of civilization.

And honestly, AI playing out at the peak of real world

civilization was a fucking laughingstock.

That's all it was.

Right?

It was the Minions laughing about how bad

AI video generation is.

I love the one where they have like seven or eight fingers.

And I'm like, yeah, they still don't

have that figured out, but--

The two ladies-- it was like the people dancing that

had three legs sticking out of their crotch.

And the Minions are just laughing so hard.

And then you see at the other side of it, you see--

I mean, I don't think I've ever seen better commercials.

Like the way they shot--

I think Taimou spent $21 million for their ads.

And by the way, I think a lot of their stuff

was actually generated by AI.

It looked like it.

There is.

And we'll get into that, because I want to talk about that.

I didn't even know what that was until the thing--

but when you talk about actual human creativity,

there were some really, really well done stuff

that AI wouldn't be able to create any time soon.

And do you think a lot of that is maybe attributed

to enablement of human creativity

by some of these tools?

Or do you just think we're just getting that much better at it?

No, I don't at all.

Actually, I mean, I think probably they probably

did use some of that, maybe.

But I think that you're talking about the best--

generalized AI is not going to beat the best director,

the best writer, the best cinematographer, the best

actor, the most--

The guys you hire to make a $7 million video.

Yeah, no way.

The agency's kicking AI's ass.

I couldn't see it.

And this is a problem, because I couldn't tell you

what the brand was.

But the football players who were the Eagles,

where they were flying, that was hilarious.

I mean, the execution was good, the quality, that was--

but I couldn't, for the life of you,

I could not tell you what brand it was, other than you just--

rah!

They're all literally all these football players

trying to fly like Eagles, and they're landing in trees

and all this shit.

I mean, I think--

You see the peak of creative genius, right?

You have these people spending millions on the videos.

Then you have Kanye.

Yeah.

Who-- I mean, it looked like he was in some factory in Taiwan.

I mean, you had no clue where he was.

But he gets on there.

This is a genius, right?

Little bit crazy.

Wait, he was in a commercial?

Yeah, he had a commercial.

Oh, he did?

It was like a short.

For what?

It was like a reel or something that he made.

He literally shot it.

He paid $7 million, and he literally gets on the video

and says, we spent all the money for this video

on just making the ad for the Super Bowl.

So anyway, it's Ye here.

I want you guys to go check out da-da-da-da.com.

Sold $25 million for the product right then.

My favorite part was he was like, yeah,

the website's got shoes and shoes, I guess.

I feel it was probably a little scripted or whatever,

but it was hilarious.

Did you hear that it got him supposedly kicked out

of the game?

No.

Really?

Yeah.

Supposedly, he was--

That's too much power.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's a lot of rumors about that.

But speaking of results, so if you

want to spend $7 million on a 30-second spot, right?

Is that how much it is?

I think that's what it was.

$7 million for a 30-second spot.

I think Teemu had three of them, and they spent $21 million.

I think it was something like that.

$7 million apiece.

That's what it was.

And guess what the number one app download on the App Store

this week is?

Teemu.

Co-Pilot and Teemu.

Really?

Yep.

So that shit works.

Marketing works.

Marketing, it's hard to get an audience right now.

And for the NFL, they're laughing right now,

because they've got a whole new audience that's getting pulled

in, right?

And everybody's just captivated.

And if you can actually get these eyes on things--

I mean, everyone's like, what's the ROI?

What's the ROI?

Well, there's your ROI, right?

Yeah, I mean, I just think it's wild what Taylor Swift has

been able to do for as long as she's been able to do it,

and basically look like the exact same person.

So the girl I'm talking to right now is a huge--

the girls I was growing up with, 25, 26, huge Taylor Swift fans,

people that are older.

And then I hung out with my friend,

and what I did was to his daughter's baby shower.

And his little sister is--

I don't know, maybe she's 12, 13--

is in love with Taylor Swift.

I mean, she just owns the population in that sect.

I don't know.

It's just crazy to me how she's been famous for this long.

That Super Bowl gets $125 million.

No way.

Not for a second.

No way.

They honestly-- there's people that just tuned in just

to see her.

But the Taimou thing is insane.

Has anybody bought anything from there before?

No, I didn't even know it existed.

Have you?

Yeah, yeah.

So the only reason I did is because my dad landed on it

at one point when he was looking for a monitor.

And I'm like, let's not order a monitor from there.

But it's kind of like the next version of Alibaba,

or Wish.com, where it's just real--

the biggest place that I see it is

are people who show what they thought

they were buying from Taimou versus what they actually

got on TikTok.

And it's usually just night and day,

where you think you're getting this great thing for $4.99,

and then it takes two weeks.

It shows up, and it's this big.

I was actually looking for squeezy cheese, Swiss cheese

things.

Found some on Amazon, but they were literally that big.

I was like, god damn it.

Well, they have that way of undercutting their shipping

costs.

So anything that's under $800 or whatever,

they don't have to pay that tax.

So they cut the cost there.

It's manufactured direct from China.

So you cut out the middleman.

And then there's also questionable labor practices.

And it's all knockoff goods.

But they're outspending every single company

in the world that's advertising right now.

And they're trying to-- and it's working.

It's working.

It was the number one app in the App Store in 2003.

What I'll be curious, it might be working,

but where they can draw the people.

But if they have the same problem that Alibaba has

and some of these others--

It's the stickiness.

Yeah, will it last long term?

Yeah, they can spend $7.14-- because they

had like two or three ads.

Well, and you're trying to sell to Americans.

And let's be honest, there's been much more of a flight

to quality in America.

Especially when it comes to women's cups or Stanley

or whatever the hell they are.

You walk into a Dick's Sporting Goods,

which type of cup would you like to buy for $50 today?

We've got to figure out a way to create one of those.

Because it's just a little stainless steel

with a gap in the middle.

It's like $85.

That's ridiculous.

It's unbelievable.

But yeah, you go into--

the best retail company in the state

is a home and garden shop called Sullivan's.

And they're actually a Northside Catholic family.

But they reinvented retail.

But they used to sell--

used to go there to get the right screw and get grass seed

when I was a kid.

And now you go there to buy Yetis and big green eggs

and very expensive fake Christmas trees.

But that's, I think, to your point of credibility

and what people are interested in in real life

is the experience.

And if you're getting a big ticket item like that,

you want to go see it in person.

And totally, the retail experience is changing.

I would say grab it.

I think if I advice--

with all this stuff that's going on,

the digital world just taking over,

and everybody's just on a phone, I

think that my best advice to people

is to find communities where there's real stuff going on.

OK, so we were literally talking about this before the show.

And to kind of bring it back to the relationship thing,

if you are single right now and you feel lost,

go into Tinder and using Bumble and Hitch

and all these things, consider volunteering.

Go find a place that you want to volunteer

in your local community.

Because if you find something that you're interested in,

you're going to go.

And guess what you're going to find?

Other people who are interested in the same friggin' thing.

Do that.

Or go climbing.

Go do the wall climbing.

Or go to the gym.

Find things that you're passionate about,

and you're going to find people who have that similar thing.

And that's what you need to do.

And try to do something that's actually maybe out

of your comfort zone.

Like I started working on Andre.

I didn't work out for 10 years.

But now there's other people that are part of that.

Even though we don't talk, there's

just that tip of the cap that's like, OK, you're here again.

You're one of the people that shows up.

You're one of the people that are here.

Also, if you're looking to use AI

to help with your relationship, don't use it for the whole--

The thing I was using it for.

Yeah.

That's counterproductive.

That's an instant gratification thing.

What I've been using it for is from time

to time relationship advice.

Say you're texting with a girl you just

met at the gym or wherever.

And she doesn't text you back right away.

Well, go ask the chat bot, is this normal?

What should I do in this situation?

She's probably going to tell you to chill out.

Yeah, exactly.

Don't freak out.

Don't reply.

Yeah, hold.

But she's on Instagram.

I can see the green dial.

Chill, dude.

But use it for stuff like that where

you can use it as a sounding board

and to quiet that part of your brain that's maybe

freaking out a little bit because it's emotional

and reactive.

That is 100% true.

So we were talking about this earlier,

that I had a similar thing where I was trying to figure out

how to best basically have a conversation about this topic

with my wife.

I'm all emotional.

I'm whatever.

And it's just like, now you have to understand

from their perspective.

And it just gives you a better grounding of what you're really

trying to do here.

And it pulls your ego out of the equation.

So I find that it's super helpful for those types

of things as well.

Also, a note that I would say is there's

a lot of content out there that's

going to tell you everything that you

think you want to be hearing because that's what gets people

to listen to their content.

But I'm talking more to the guys.

I feel like a lot of guys fall in this bucket.

And it's like, if you go out there,

girls are also lonely too.

They're looking for love too.

You don't have to be--

the big thing that's going on right now is you need to be 6

foot or taller, make at least, at bare minimum--

250.

--100 grand.

I saw this one video.

This girl was like, how much do you make a year?

I mean, at least 500.

At least 500?

What are you bathing, gold?

I don't understand.

But seriously, people are interested.

But yeah, going to the gym.

Just even getting in and around other people.

You have little relationships.

And I think that's actually what--

going back a lot of podcasts ago, what I was saying.

I think the future that I would like to create

is one where, even as we go super digital,

creating real spaces for people to come together and experience

stuff together.

Because that's just cool.

Like, Sean and I go to the gym every single morning.

Kind of like a podcast studio.

Stay tuned.

That'll be for a future conversation.

That's right.

Well, everybody, this was the Big Cheese AI Podcast.

Again, I am DeAndre Herakles, joined by Sean Hives, Brandon

Corbin, and Jacob Wise.

Thank you for tuning in.

We'll see you guys next week.

On.

Oh, please work.

Social

Show Notes

Subscribe

Let's Connect