Welcome to another episode of BigCheese AI Podcast with hosts Sean Hise, Jacob Wise, and Brandon Corbin featuring special guest James Paden. This episode dives into an array of intriguing subjects at the intersection of AI, strategy, and business.
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Closing Remarks: Listeners who are interested in the transformation power AI offers, especially in integrating it into existing business models, can reach out to James Payton for AI product strategy consulting. Tune in next week for more insights and discussions on the evolving world of AI technology.
All right, welcome to the big cheese podcast. My name is Sean Heiss. I'm here today with as usual Brandon Corbin Our resident AI idiot Savant it hits a lot Jacob Wise CTO founder of Awesome agency crafted which I also happen to work out is that it get crafted crafted get crafted? No, no, sorry, what's the domain? What's the domain? Crafted up. I know we don't have any money. So we have to use one of those domain has another word in it Crafted up calm check out and we also have our special guest today James Payton And today we're gonna be talking about A lot of things a lot of things been going on AI strategy business strategy like if you're building an AI product Listen to this podcast because you've got some really good advice for you, but we're gonna kick it off today with we have to Because WDWDC the worldwide developer conference worldwide worldwide Developer conference is started and you know all anyone cares about it's the keynote right? You know Steve Jobs used to get up there and whatever and now it's like this whole video thing because of COVID Did you guys did you guys watch it? I did I watched a lot of it and catch all of it and And me and my friends parlance. It's called Apple Church We'd often like sit down and watch it together. We congregate. Yeah Really we call it Apple Church, but I had to step out of church a couple times You know Versels kind of done the same thing with their their their conference and their keynote like they just panning to different experts and just the production quality And I mean that you got to give it to them like they These people are running that business, but they're also amazing at creating content, right? And I don't know that silver here Yeah, that was what's his name? Craig Craig and I forget what is his last name is someone with an F I think like Ferguson or something like that, but that cutscene where he does jump, you know down that he does the part for no The worst the worst the worst But it was but I think it had to be on purpose like that had to be a cognitive like like they specifically decided Okay, we're gonna make it so it's very clear that this is a stunt double You know and there's just because there's something funny about that I will say though that The recordings and and watching these I still do miss jobs like jobs just you didn't need to have all of these different people Everybody stands there and they do this weird thing with their knees in our hands, you know They're like and so today what we're gonna tell jobs Well, he was just he was he was magical when he would get up there and he would do his thing So I do miss it. I mean, I think it's cool that they do it as a video and they can produce all of it But yeah, they spent so they spend the first so there I was watching it I actually created a video where I watched this conference and I had their Robin Hood real-time stock chart You know at the same time I haven't shared it, but I was just flipping through and I was taking notes when I was doing it and Their stock started started it didn't tank right it was sitting at whatever 190 something and you know They hadn't mentioned or said the word artificial intelligence, right? So they went through all the updates. They went through all the apps. They went through Apple watch They Apple OS they started with Vision Pro and they so Vision Pro 2 is coming out and and like like oh, we're just gonna have an 8k screen for you for Mac extended display Oh, see I I miss the beginning of it So I had no idea that they even made the announcement that there's another vision pro No, it's just a vision vision pro OS 2. Oh, so they're coming out with a completely new version version of it and but in this version You can you can just be staring at your Mac and then look up and you get 2 4k displays That extend your existing Mac. Does anybody here have a vision? We had one so I recently left Expect a behavior and we were starting up studio. We got a vision pro and then we ended up returning it Because we only bought one it was really expensive, but you can't share it So if you want to switch it and give it to someone else Oh, it's like associated to your account you have to reassociate your account You have to retrain your eyes you have to resize it. It's like a 15-minute process, right and for us It just wasn't worth it for dinkin around and playing right and we didn't want just one person to have it So we just returned it. That's crazy. It was incredible though. It was fun We all tried it and our minds were blown amazing technology and they're like, I don't know what the heck I'd do with this Yeah, someone will make something cool with this. Yeah, some day some of the things that I liked about it It just doesn't seem that practical but like the guys like wearing it in the commercial all around his house And he's like as grocery list and like all the things said. I mean, that's pretty cool But would I wear that? It's just gets to that practicality and the experience but again It it eventually it eventually is here Yeah in these in these small ass glasses that you know I just put on and now I'm having my experience that piece is like where I like where is where I see myself It involved and not in this like wearing a huge headpiece Well, I think that it comes down to the fundamental technology and I think that Apple probably reluctantly even entered it at the time that they did because they always enter things late after everybody's all Like from low-round with it but the concept of spatial computing they they understand like that that's the one thing I You respect about WWDC. They work very quick to point out what's machine learning Mm-hmm, right? They're like our machine learning algorithm Right. Yeah, they they know what I mean Yeah, and we're gonna call it Apple intelligence right right well They they they distinguish between these technologies and then they master them right they get the fun The mental is right and some of the use cases they're opening up anyways that you have watch OS that comes out So they don't talk about AI forever and then so they're stocks And then the word Apple intelligence gets spoken by Tim Cook and I Moon just absolutely Somebody might have bought in a big chunk of Apple recently and that's why he's so he's so in tune with where there's Stock I said it on the podcast in season one I said buy Apple. I said I bought Apple before it's pros and it is And out for you. Yeah, it depends on that and but the thing about Apple intelligence is not people knew What was coming they knew that they've been talking to open AI but the opening I think was got all the press Yeah, so go watch the keynote because they don't talk about they the opening I pieces very secondary and really what they talked about is doing something truly unique Which is on device AI that links all your personal information securely on your on your so that your your notes Your your email like for the first time I was actually I think I might install the mail app again Yeah, that that was what I was thinking because one of the examples they had was your mom sent you her right in Erie her right in Erie and you want to say how's my mom's flight or is whatever is it on time and I'm like well, yeah, that's awesome if Siri actually had context to my but do I have to get do I have to get the email Well, hold on hold on you got well, you what do you mean you have to insist you want to install the new iOS app mail? I've deleted the mail app from my seriously phone since the beginning you don't use mail. I fucking use mail Oh, so what do you mean it sucks? I get my email. I can reply to my email. What do you use says the guy that's on like eight slack channels And like canning through different are you are using Gmail? You sound like you sound like an Android user No, the mail app there you serve is horrendous I want that short clip published so do you guys not use the mail app on I Mac OS now no I what do you use I use Gmail? I use super human. Yeah, okay. It is so fast super humans amazing keyboard German email fuck you like are you know? It's not it's garbage Superhuman just to come up come up come out with your AI stuff and I haven't found out So superhuman actually was talked about in the Apple keynote Oh because part of Apple's AI is the app intense piece Okay, so I don't know if you guys have seen this but have you been able to order Starbucks through a push notification Right for for a while now Starbucks is probably one of the most iOS progressive apps ever made they take advantage of all the new APIs like if you you know when you get the order ready It doesn't come in a regular push notification. It comes up in this nice Oh really interstitial thing so they take advantage of all the new things well app intense is how they're gonna do Replace all these auto GPT apps. What's the app intense? I you mentioned that app intense is an API that they've created that they're using for Apple intelligence for you to be able to do things Not just get information, but actually do things so if someone says hey, I'm hey Siri order me Uber Eats and Don't cancel get me sorry did it do it? Of course it doesn't All of a sudden we're gonna have 14 coffees delivered to our fucking studio Well, she's been listening this whole time But app intense is is actually that and I know we're skipping head a little bit I think is absolutely game-changing in this whole announcement. Yeah, which is they're they're creating these APIs that Exist inside of their apps so they have the new APIs really come down to two major things I think well They have their writing API's so you can rewrite your emails. Okay, bi-grammerly, right? Not Gmail No, of course, you know, it's all text it's it's any it's any ILS based control So if they're actually developing things you know with those controls they'll be able to use them, but they also have Image playground Mm-hmm. So image playground is an interesting thing so you so it knows what you and all your friends look like So yi text you and I'm like hey, let's send me a picture Or send James a picture of me and him drinking beers after the podcast, right? And it'll send a picture of us and it'll look like us and it'll have that caricature But then those are built into all the other apps So you can go into notes and make a sketch and then highlight it and go image playground this and then it'll create and you have three different options I think it's animation illustration or something else right so you have image gen is Bye-bye all those other right image and platforms may have that last show we talked about how many AI startups were around image generation and how many there was hundreds? I mean on that. Oh, it was the number one the number one heck good point. I even think about that the number one most polluted area of AI products was image in video I know I say polluted just I guess diluted right presumptuous, but there's the most products exist in those spaces So but then you have the app intense piece the app intense piece is it works with Apple app to Apple app So like they'll talk to each other, but then you can actually do things and that's really that's really what makes a difference Yeah, is the ability to not only just get information from an LLM or consolidate all your personal data But then actually go do something in the real world I mean you talk that on this episode we want to talk about product strategy and that's like key to product strategy for any mobile app right now Right, how do you tap into that system get the right keywords get the right phrasing educate your audience on what to say to trigger you through Siri Make sure you got those use cases locked down. I mean now is the time me jumping on that bandwagon as fast as possible That's good point. Yeah, and it kind of reminds me of that rabbit R1 where is that rabbit so the rabbit R1 did you check that way? I was it was basically using puppeteer and like try until like visual There was some sort of visual aspect of it. They were just giving it to scripture whatever to run but this is a native way to interact with applications and this is more moat for Apple right like Apple had pushed Notifications and had all their features that eventually get to the web and like you know It's not as unique to Apple's platform, but it's but if you can do things like that natively inside of Apple's apps I mean that's a huge advantage. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited for that. We should go build something with it right now So I was just looking apparently it's only gonna be available on the 15 pros and Maybe I assume the 16 well this so this comes out of question to have everybody It needs a bionic 17 or an M1 which is only available on the The latest 15 pro and the 15 pro max well there you go There's your reason to buy a new I That's what it is so so Apple stock has gone up almost $20 and last three for three or four days three point something trillion They have they have a past Microsoft for a minute to get to 3.7 trillion market pet But here's so I went last night and I was like I want to what they're doing because I used to watch fast money on CMBC every day Back in I was in college just this is this thing we did But they They're talking about the Fed the Fed the Fed and the rates the rates and they get to Apple you can't get any dates So what else are you gonna do right? Absolutely, you gotta go watch the finance and these guys these guys are funny right they're all on fundamentals They're extremely intelligent, but they pan around they're like Apple up a million bajillion and you can tell these guys did not Lock in right they didn't they're they're all sitting there with FOMO and they're like they're like how it's all it's going back to 200 I don't understand this is this is not gonna so they they they don't they immediately go from AI to Are people gonna buy iPhones more iPhones? Right, right and that's the only thing that that the markets reacting to right now with Apple is are people gonna buy more iPhones and my question to the group is Like somebody some smart money's buying and going super long on Apple like to the to the amounts of billions and billions of dollars What are the the pundits missing? That that the market is speaking to I I have now a reason to I so I have a 14 I have a 14 base right now I went from an iPhone 8 Plus I think the 8 plus is what I had and that thing was great worked forever. I didn't really have a reason to update Eventually the new operating system came out. I was like I need to upgrade so I got the 14 14's been great. I have no reason to upgrade. It's been more than but now I'm like son of a bitch I was like I need to go and and so most likely what I'll do I assume that the 16 will be able to support all this like that just the base 16 right not the 16 plus and that's But this is a good way for them to basically be able to get everybody to upgrade because it is it's it's getting harder and harder to make a very good case Of why I need to upgrade because again the 14 has been more than enough horsepower for everything that I do And why are there stock? I think has been beaten down the last couple years is right that people just haven't been upgrading as much There's hasn't been a good reason. I think this is a good reason to do it. I That may be true I have a I have a different view. I guess. Yeah. I think this is a services play and a eco play long term so right now I what percentage of money does Apple make from the app store? 30 30 percent of sorry what percent of their revenue? I don't know but it's it's it's the only growth. It's their it's their biggest growing Product it will so but what they just did was instead of making Chat gbt.com your entry point to AI Siri is going to be your entry point to AI for mass audiences now right now that does point to chat gbt Probably won't five years from now 10 years from now you combine that with their app intents of the Intentions part Well, now you're just plugging into e-commerce What percentage of automatic AI-based e-commerce are they going to own five years from now? How do you get into that? Through the app store through the app payment process like Like they're gonna be like own the ecosystem and that's not even touching the the data part of this right? How do you make a better AI? Well, you need to understand what everyone's asking what do people want out of AI? And you need to log out and I'm sure they're all privacy oriented but somewhere somewhere some point They're gonna be getting data on what people want out of AI and they're gonna have more of that data than anybody else We have a winner 100% yeah because appels AI is not only are they killing a bunch of other startups? They're taking in the entry point and that's important. So James is right that the the issue is it Where's the revenue coming from that they'll figure that out like they always do right? It is a services play and I feel I feel bad for all these other entry points and other pieces that are gonna die Yeah, but like Apple's gonna give this shit away for free. It's kind of what we talked about last week, which was You know chat GPT is was the best UI to give access and accessibility But it was never probably going to be the thing like what do we use every single day? It's our phone and who's the best phone producer in the world? It's Apple, you know Google's good too and you know windows What did you see they even spent the time to make Siri cooler? So now when you press the side button it's this cool like like loading animation that goes around the rim of your phone Yeah, and it's it's like super legit like in a show where there's a beard so that there's that you know time has passed like They like they got to make Siri different so you know it's better now You know so I think so I think in conclusion I think that Apple will have a bigger refresh cycle because of Apple intelligence and Supported by this I mean they how good are they at at layering and okay? We're gonna introduce all these new chips. We're gonna own the entire productions Cycle stack when it comes to building these chips. We're gonna own the chips. Okay, then we're gonna build an AI into our software And then we're gonna literally take over all these people that are trying to get people to go to their website to use AI Going to chat GPT to use AI we every single every single AI transactions are gonna run through our phones also something I think James pointed it out. That was a really good point is They didn't jump to trying to make them they're not jumping to make a model today Apple waited Right, they're gonna they're gonna let everyone else figure out how to make the models the best way you know get That what's happening right now and it is in video is building better chips the processes are getting easier We're understanding how to make the best model better then they'll they'll invest big time in it and I bet you in five years or less You're put with their integrated play. They're gonna have a huge leg up like you probably know more about the technical walls of LLMs Then I do but when Apple Changes their chip in a way that makes their AI better long-term and Google can't match that the same way they can't match a lot of other Abilities right now yeah at the hardware side like Could be a very big reason I don't like it a few years from out right yeah, they can have that integrated play in a way that other phone makers can't do Well, it isn't that a kind of a long-term strategy. You've seen from Apple is they they kind of won with software Right, but then they now they kind of came around and now they're winning with hardware Yeah, and I know their stuff always was good, but they were relying on Intel They were you know they were building fancy like screens and all that like but like fundamentally like they're actually charging way ahead and You know we'll see yeah, I do think that there so I've been watching this one and I can't remember their name But it's a company who's basically using human brain cells to be able to form these kind of new chips that are like this hybrid human Chip hardware play they're like these little humanoid Module things and apparently they've got like they start forming like little black eyes and stuff that they It's it's I think the company like that is gonna come out of nowhere and basically just be able to completely Decimate in video right and it's gonna be like yep We've got these new chips these are all completely different avenue because again What Nvidia is doing with their chips is just insane what Apple is doing with their chips is absolutely insane Someone's gonna come up with a whole new breed of like biological chips. Yeah That Apple and you're gonna be able to send memes to your friends like never before That was the feature that I was most excited about was the emoji generator Jim Create any emoji ever I'm gonna create eggplant emojis are gonna be next the first the first the first thing I know Troy Sarah Yeah, yeah, I'm excited for this like this thing I've been I've been looking for because I installed it as soon as it came out I'm like all right. I go and I install it on my phone I can't find any of these features like I've got the ability to make my home screen extremely ugly now Right like I can make all the colors green and I can make everything like black and green and all this and it's Narlie as hell Steve Jobs is rolling over in his grave because he never would have let you know He would have never let a lot of customized the design of their phone because there are a bunch of idiots so I'm but yeah I like I installed it thinking okay. I'm gonna be all excited for right 18s beta and Like I got nothing because I don't have a 15 so all those features are basically just cut off for me So I was like there's no difference between iOS 17 and iOS 18 Well, it's by the hype cell the news and for some reason people think that an announcement at a developer conference's news Well Apple will have it that's real test will be when they when this all gets into user-sands Yeah actually using it right and you're just powering through whatever my mouth tokens That's a great point. Let's not forget help badly Apple fucked up Siri in the first place. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah Oh, we said we bitch about it every every every every episode. We're bitching about fucking useless. Yeah, 100% Yeah, so I'm I am hopeful that we get to a point where I was hopeful that Siri with this version would have just been better Right, but now it seems like I'm gonna have to like ask Siri question a might go like I don't know about I'll hand you off to GPT And then you have to approve that eventually I hope it all happens so device in in the appellant in the later half of that keynote They demoed the Siri updates and she was absolutely waiting for a response There was no zero latency. There was no discussion of it. That's not in play. They haven't done it and That is gonna be a huge weakness for Apple because the zero latency chat piece that that got demoed by opening a few weeks ago Was was the most impressive I'm still waiting for it though. I continually launched in my chat GBT It's not there and I go and I hit that that microphone icon and I'm just waiting to see if I eventually get it But I haven't had access to it. I met with an entrepreneur yesterday and he introduced me to some cool tech They're working on a fixie dot AI. Have you guys heard of this? What is it? It's fixie fixie fixie x i e dot a i okay, and they're doing voice only LLM So no text it's not voice the text the voice it's voice only zero latency is their goal the team behind it are the guys who created like web RTC Oh wow zoom runs on all that kind of stuff So that is what they're doing they have a website a i dot town Yes dot town is is the the TLD there no kidding dot town dot town. It's a it's a website full of characters Different kinds of people you bring it up and you can text or you can call the character Huh, you can call it chef and talk to a chef you can call oh Okay, hold on hold on hold on we're on a podcast right what okay, so we should call it We're gonna call somebody we've got an angry boomer. Let's call the angry boomer. We're gonna call the angry boomer. Let's call him Turn up your volume But think about this we're on a podcast right now and we're spouting words of wisdom and intelligence and that's why people listen to us Soon you don't have to listen to yesterday's podcast you can call the AI today and talk to him Er Thank you Boomer. Sorry. Let's see if we can get this only okay, we're gonna call it Uh, okay, hold on you keep talking all right angry boomer. He's he's he's on the golf course Where's the thing you think about getting in your car and you're going for a drive him right now you turn on a podcast What if you call a historian instead or an economist or a market analyst and you simply have a conversation with that person like Alive interaction where they're looking up data and Wikipedia yeah giving you instant Zero latency up-to-date information and you're just talking and every time they say you well you got a new question So you go down a new rabbit hole and instead of like listening to podcasts. It's almost like you're You're in a podcast. Yeah, right the guest question and their subject matter expert on everything well Yeah, yeah, we didn't we talk about that first season and then we we thought that was like a pion sky never would happen Yeah, but also like yeah every road trip I ever go on I'll think of the dumbest questions You know it's like shower thoughts, but and I'm just like I saw a zebra one time and in Kentucky And I was like why is there a zebra in Kentucky? So I asked I went to Google and we're like trying to hunt the enemy eventually found it out This dude just had a zebra farm, but yeah, like that that would be very exciting for me because that's my favorite thing to do when I drive It's to just look up random shit Do you need luck over there? No, I'm now put into this weird chat interface. I'm gonna. I'll come back to it. Yeah, we'll come back to it. Yeah Anyways, we had a we had a couple other things we wanted to talk about in terms of the the AI side yep The Amazon is thirsty for people to use their their products and so they're yeah, they're literally begging people like what's going on? So they just announced a $230 million Investment in AI, which essentially most of its earmarked for credits AWS credits for startups and AI companies to use their platform They obviously want people to build AI on their platform on AWS and spend Gobs and gobs of money consuming their their GPUs that they're hosting They're also inside of the article was a mention of their Model that they're training and did you guys see that research paper? Is it yeah, Olympus and so Of course, yeah, I know yeah, so I forget all the numbers, but they're It's crazy. It's like four trillion Yeah, like like this model that they're building and it was they spend 86 million dollars. Yeah, and and there was a couple on there So basically they said it will it'll be in the next couple years that there's going to be a billion dollar cost to train the next model Right, so in the next couple years we're going to be throwing so much hardware spending so much time and it took like 45 days to Try days to train the whole thing. I had I mean, I knew that this was complicated and expensive, but I guess I just could you imagine get into like 40 and like having something go wrong. That reminds me, we so what what So when it's doing that like what's actually happening? I think literally they're just burning the entire energy of New York As it's sitting there going doing its mathematical calculations for 48 days. It's just like it's just vectorizing a shit time Literally, I think that's all it's doing now when we say that's all it's doing there's obviously a bunch of black magic That's happening with these people who are fucking geniuses that are making this all happen But yeah, I literally think it's just burning the energy of the sun for 48 days That makes me work because I feel like 48 days is not very long. That's right. Like thinking for like top level models for building like super intelligent Open-Eye spends months on their stuff, right? I agree with that like there's two things that can be true one 48 days is a long time for something to just build because we used to have this joke with webpack where it would get to like 78% check-ass and it would freeze and die. So could you imagine on day 47 where you're like I mean, but first of all, yeah, it's like both a long time and also not that long time to create a brand new model That and then what you can just throw more hardware at it more data and then two months later you can have the next model Well, I mean Again, we're talking product strategy and like what if you invest 48 days and building a model like you go to your boss's Adi AWS and they're like hey give me 48 days and the power of New York and 180 million to like yeah sure That comes out and it's great and then a week later someone builds a model that's 10% better right and you're just like That's where I think that we talked about this. This is probably the thing we've talked about so much more than anything is Is that where's the commodity is the commodity and the in the software in the UI or is the commodity in the model And we've gone back and forth with Open-Eye because their models have been coming out and in the it appears that their models are great When Dolly first came out we're like oh my god, this is amazing right? I'm making all this stuff and then I probably turned you know or whatever But um, I think that we the where we've been centering around is is probably that the models are a little bit Give the commodity and the and the user network effect and the you know the the user that the the interface and the and the the way to get to it and apply the technologies Yeah, is the mode I think the mode I guess I'll put the mode elsewhere I think the mode when you're thinking about AI strategy from Almost any perspective the mode is your data. Yeah, what data do you have that someone else doesn't have? Yeah, because you're right the the models are going to be commodities You can put any model on any data But like what data do you have that your competition doesn't have and again if we go back to our our conversation about apples AI intelligence They're going to be getting the most data and that's a huge win for them So when I've talked to companies about their strategy. I'm like what data do you have if you don't have it How can you get it right before your competitors figure out they need it? Well, and then the but then I agree with that and we just had a conversation today and it was all about oh you have this unique data that I've never heard I've never seen before you guys are creating this unique data But then you get to the board of directors and they're like do not let us get hacked Data leak right because now you're talking about and they're like well, we can't send like they're all like don't send our data to opening on Right, but we've been happy to host our data in AWS for 10 15 years right I'm sure I think they're not doing something with that like you know, so that that's always been a question to me is like is okay So you is AWS Gonna be a good place for that for those kind of those those data-driven products I think they will be and the reason is is because they They make very specific claims of not training on your data and so that's one of one of my clients was insurance client here in Indianapolis that they've just said okay, we're we're gonna go full on with you know AWS and bedrock all the models that they've had they've had their security team basically go and try to evaluate everything and say yeah This is this is where we're gonna have it so I think that they I don't think that they're gonna necessarily be training on other people's or on the data that's coming in because it's just not part of their thing Open AI says they're not either You know like so open AI is like yeah, we're not training on users data again like this is their CEO who couldn't explain where the training data for What's the image? You can trust open AI's Claims to privacy and security when they're when they're privacy and security team all just Yeah, literally just all bolt-toe Sam Altman right off the board be for for Violating the core mission of the company which was one of the reasons why Elon Musk was upset if he's just You know having some ulterior motive or not as a different question, but there's no doubt that open AI completely Forced away from their original company's mission vision. Yeah, and to and to to the Detriment of the relationship with some of their cook the core engineering founders. Yeah, no good I'm curious long term about how a WS fits in from a latency perspective So right now if you want to work with open AI you send out a you know a get request or post or whatever HTTP request off to open AI and then you wait for their response right that's significant latency Now AWS is they're gonna put their model on the machine sitting right next to your network, right? It's gonna be edge to edge and every single data center and sure open AI is gonna raise their hand like hey WS can we do that too and probably AWS will say no Yeah, you know, so you think about the round trip latency of if you're doing anything with a real-time nature chat bots Yeah, be an interesting one. So you heard it here first Apple it wins the personal AI race and AWS Potentially wins the B to B so yeah race boy. I would counter with cloud flair might be positioned to do some some damage there as well But yeah, I agree with what you're saying that the winners of of you know if you're trying to build applications What AI built in and leveraging these models your users aren't gonna wait the two seconds I think the premise here is is latency Which is what you just said which I totally agree with because everyone's gonna be like and the answers fine Yeah, I just want it fast. Yeah, yeah, that's what so that that's the the one client that I have Just tons of unstructured data Basically, that's what I've been tried to test with is try to use these large language models to take the some structured data Turn it into some sort of a structured format that they can work with AWS is the only place I'll work with really yeah, oh, yeah from business perspective Just because they again, they've gone through it. They've seen their things and they're all happy with it But like yep go ahead and you guys can just use it but can't use you know Azure can't use open AI But you can only use bedrock Yeah, because everyone's AWS instance this is so locked down from a security perspective No, just wide open case. No, of course not no not at all. No, yeah, well, so going to my point then was Talking about companies and what they're doing with their data is Adobe so Adobe this week blew up everybody got all pissed off with them rolled out some new terms of service that basically said and I mean it literally basically said that we have we have a We basically own all of your designs like we can we can do whatever we want with your designs now everybody who read this was like well, you're just using this to train your AI models And so that's what blew up in the news cycle and they're like no not at all like we don't care about that So firefly which is their image generator is trained on only Adobe owned assets And so that's kind of their their claim to fame is that their models are only trained on Licensed material that Adobe owns and so if you would happen to get sued they'll go on your behalf And they will fight and they'll do it because again They they know that they have not trained on anything but things that are owned however When you actually read the terms of service and I did this and I actually had chat GPT Extracted because I wanted to bring it up and that it you know, they're literally says that Adobe Adobe Users users grand Adobe a non-exclusive worldwide royalty-free license to use reproduce publicly display distribute modify and create derivative works from the content uploaded to their service Okay, so everybody kind of loses their mind rightfully fucking so Right like everybody's like well hold on they're like no, no, no, we're not training your AI So they write this long blog post like we're gonna update our terms We're not training your data on our or we're not training our AI on your data And we won't ever really go and take take your content Again, I don't care what a blog post says I want to know what the terms of service says and it very clearly states that we can use your content For whatever ultimately that we want well Did they update the terms of service after they started? Well so before no so usually they call the lawyer and say yeah Well, so they've been writing these blog posts So then this today I was like I went and I found their general terms of service. I took that I throw it into chat GBT I said all right. I'm going to talk about this So right now that thing that I just read is what's currently on their terms of service today Is that a doby dot com? It's a doby dot com their general terms So this isn't even broken down to the individual every product that they have has their own terms This is their general terms. You like those are pretty standard terms. They they might most websites that let you upload things They might be however, that's a problem right because again as it as a creative who's creating things within Photoshop or Illustrator or whatever They're basically saying that they have the right to take that and reproduce it and make derivative works of it However, they see fit that's a problem right like that's just so for me personally it'd be like the The paintbrush manufacturer telling Bob Ross they're exactly they own his paintings So so for me like when when creative cloud first came out I installed it read the terms of service realized that they were trying to basically Upload and upload my entire brand and Corbin home drive to the cloud because that's how their business model was I'm like I'm fucking done. I've been using Photoshop since version 2.0 because 1.0 wasn't even really a thing Right, so I've been I've been a in a doby I was I was there for the migration from you know from Claris to Adobe like I've been in Adobe guy and I was a macramedia guy. What no freehand anytime freehand macramedia freehand was better than Illustrator No question right like I was a freehand guy and I finally reluctantly became an Illustrator guy once that all went down I left him I and uninstalled all of it. I went to affinity designer affinity Photo whatever I think it's called affinity photo for my my alternates and I've so I've been Adobe free now for About eight years and but now everybody's starting to go. Oh, yeah, these guys are it's bullshit. It's it's bullshit And that's that there is no I can't imagine that regardless of if it's if it's it's probably a standard practice. Yeah to do that just because they But people are but people wouldn't assume that that was I also think that There's never been a use case like this to leverage our day, right? We probably to your point It probably this probably is a standard offer procedure for an agreement, but it was like What do they do with my drawing nothing? They can't and now it's they could yeah, they can literally replace people You know or 100% reproduce their work and they're they're saying they can do it legally I think this is a hard time to be at it like a giant tech company like that. Yeah From this perspective you're you're under enormous enormous pressure to create a model that's better than everyone else's model to move your business along with AI and the only way to make a better model is to get better and put data more of it and you I mean you see open And I do this where they Legally or illegally, you know, let the courts work For all and scrape every data source public private they could find and if you're a doby and you're sitting on a giant Pile of data if you're Facebook you're sure they're telling it pile of data like Tapping into that could be really big. Well didn't face looks like they could really have the same thing Where they said we're gonna take your data unless you opt out of it and top out of it. It's not the easiest I mean, it's not that hard, but it's an op out right. It's not an opt-in I don't care like I don't care that they want to use my jokes about faceball that's you don't get to make that decision. Right you don't get to say that oh my my dumb jokes are For bid but but my my my freshest designs right but also not just your jokes It's how long did you stop and look at an image? Very very right. You know exactly and they'll start You know this guy's in or these sorts of wild shit This goes back to my standard dystopian AI or you know, which is there's four companies that win and they all are gonna Hit five trillion plus market cap in the next three or four years and everyone else if you're not if you're not learning swift right now Yeah, I think that you're probably I did like whatever you share today where I'm like I'm pretty certain he's trying to tell me I need to learn more swift Oh that interaction I always totally sub tweaked new yeah totally but my it's like If you don't leverage if you don't get on board it's gonna be tough for you because I just don't I think that there's Continuity to keep eating and eating and eating and and and and and and and and maybe It's more of the unique Non-commoditized aspects like don't go try to build an Arandom avatar image generation tool that's there 600 of those out in the market maybe try to go build a B2B thing That's leveraging company day something the apple doesn't want to touch right apple wants to touch a billion people Yep, that wants not not 2000 or something that's getting somebody's gonna build a five million dollar company You know, yeah, the opportunities here. I think are for For businesses that that have that data or can get that data because because AI I let you do a few things that you could not do before You can you can transform data and translate data and label things and categorize things and things being Text video images sound cameras any weird source of data that until now you had to be a doby You had to have an entire team of PhDs to build a model around now you don't it's commoditized And I think it's gonna be in a race over the next five years to figure out if the incumbents who are currently in the big B2B space Transform their services in AI versus the startups who are all gonna be leveraging AI Can get enough sales and get enough data to compete against them, right? But I think if the big guys Work with AI first whatever that means for their business They're gonna win. I think this this is like most I think almost like most things in tech these days the incumbents are winning Uh, and I think AI builds on top of that because it's suit data centric right so um Going back to my one client that I've got so they're an insurance company They've been around for a thousand years or whatever it's been the one thing that they have is Is 20 to 30 years of unstructured data That's where the AI can just come in and absolutely just it give them a huge leg up So I've been working with that data set and I'm like so part of my thing is to be able to go take these unstructured data And to be able to extract meaning from it right and these llms are phenomenal at it right so we're using clawed opus Go and basically say here's the structure. I want you to take this completely unstructured data format and turn it into a structured data format Right and in outputs and then booboo booboo all of a sudden now you've got this you know 30 years of data That's been unstructured into a structured thing in 30 seconds I mean that's insanely valuable for these companies so I'm doing the same thing with the client on on Let's call customer records. Mm-hmm same thing. Yeah, yeah exactly that until now Was unqualified right now can be quantified. Yeah, you can do sentiment analysis You can measure changes over time and the customer's record right and measure the impact of your service in a way that was previously Unmeasurable unless you were yeah giant enterprise corporation. Yeah, it's a game changer for companies like that Yeah, that's amazing and that reminds me of Amazon feature that I just noticed the other day that's amazing It's what I've always wanted but at the top of product review, right? I'm a I have a problem where I have to go read like a hundred reviews And I is there anything in comment or anyone complaining about the same thing Well, they just give you the the overview now the sentiment analysis of all the comments. Yep, and reviews and it says people It's so valuable people say it's a good bang for its book when it lacks here. I'm like oh shit That's amazing now. I can make a really good informed purchasing decision on this product And that's I that's what I love about so before big so big cheese Big cheese came out of a thing called interview plan So interview plan was the thing that I started to build which was my first for like I'm okay I'm gonna I'm gonna try to make recruiting better using AI Where you can go and you can build an interview plan and then you can basically interview people and track it and do some rise and all this kind of stuff But what was kind of interesting about it is as as I was going through and building all of this um Oh shit, I completely just lost my train of thought Unstructured data unstructured data So you can send them an analysis completely gone completely gone Gone this is ADHD my friends. This is the way you get it work Get all excited about an idea like don't lose track don't lose track and then it's just gone Anyway, that is an interview plan. No, he won't it's all right. It's fine interview plan I'll come back to it go ahead and talk. I mean I was talking to West Winham woven earlier this week and I'm not sure how much I can share publicly about what he's working on right But he's working on some AI stuff and sort of that field and the technical recruiting field and there come up with some really cool tech And I guess back to our earlier points about data what they're doing is is pulling in Sources of data that they have that other people don't have as well as external data And then you're able to take one plus one equals three and then you add a on AI on then you were like one plus one plus one equals five And like you're creating value out of something that There was previously unstructured not valuable There's a lot of opportunities with the next few years to do things no one's ever done before I saw a fascinating someone Someone I used to work with now at Google Google did a thing with what city was this I'm gonna say Memphis. I could be wrong in Memphis and All over Memphis there's there's cars with cameras. There's police cars. There's city cars There's all the stuff so they have all this these cameras with the streets And then Google went ran all the through an AI and they found all the potholes Hmm, and now they have a Now it takes them up 10 days to get a camera on every city Or on every street in the city, but they have a 10-day lag on every Every single damn pothole in the entire city Then you later that on a map and now you're a lot more intelligent about how you fix your potholes Which helps you get reelected like and that's data we never had before the one of the stats They quoted in there when they fill potholes in cities today Only 10% of those potholes are reported by people like you and me by citizen to call and complain because the potholes So giant big the other 90% are just potholes they fix when the pothole crews drive around to fix them Well, and that's cool because there's probably a big cost advantage that where you're getting to them before they become a huge problem And and get washed out and oh yeah driven over a hundred times or yeah That's all like they didn't do anything new Yeah, I don't think they added cameras well, and that's the great point is like when you're thinking about how to add AI into your product The first thing you think of is how do I add on I need a new thing to it's got to be new and shiny But the reality is just so much opportunity and existing functionality and features that you can improve enhanced through AI Yeah, and and with data the data the data I think is absolutely key that these companies like if you've got a bunch of data no matter What format it's in then you can transform that into something that is insanely valuable and and you can leverage that to turn into a lot of cash I think I think one of the I guess Moving on from that a little bit one of the things that we're not there yet I don't feel like you guys correct me if you see something I don't as I don't think we're on Anywhere close to where we're going to be on the automation front Which is the other advantage is you can take that data and you can somehow turn it and automate it So we we did research that was last week actually and we basically craft reference the most diluted AI categories for products and then we cross reference that with the most popular products and the Union of that was the products that had the most popularity of the least amount of products built for them Right and the top three the two three of the top five were related to AI girlfriends And but the the one and the one little shining little Diamond and the rough was auto GPT and that was the concept of automating things From the inputs and outputs of AI and that's where I think that's where we go and go back to the apple thing right is from a from a from a from a pure mobile perspective Right Apple just figured that out But that doesn't that's not everything that's that doesn't mean they integrate with every edi and api You know what I mean in platform and I think that you know what I mean but every one of those apis now needs to make sure they have an apple Oh exactly they did before and like and again we go back to data And who has all the app intent data that no one else has they don't Apple's gonna have it all they're gonna know how it all I mean I'm preaching the choir on that one This reminds me of something we've been saying for a very long time is AI will drive protocols Real drive on it'll standardization of data so that it can actually do these automations Much more effectively and apples the one who's kind of taking the lead on it But we we've mentioned Google's a product api for a long time where it's like in the search you can buy the thing from the e-commerce site, but I mean yeah, it's We'll probably wake up in five years and a plumber can get on a website and say build me an automation detects my customer after after Service call and it's like okay, so apples so so unique in the fact that I have how they approach their problems, but one of the one of the things that they do is they make Unbelievable things that no one ever even notices Like my daughter comes out to me yesterday and she goes I'm wanting to show you this all day dead And so she takes my phone and she unlocks it and she knows she knows how to do this she's well she's 11 And she goes to she goes do you want to use this shuffle feature and I was like I was like what are you talking about and she's like you know well I know that you love your your little wallpapers that you put on your phone And she's like well, you can know you can do a shuffle. Have you guys seen it? My wife tells everybody about this okay, yeah, the shuffle and so she goes into my phone And of course she was just it was just this selfish move she went and found the shuffle Tuned it so it only shows pictures of her And then she went and picked the one I think you can even pick some of the ones that you want to train it on her She picked the good ones and she switched my wallpaper thing and and and then she just handed it back to me She's like now you just get to see a different picture of me every single time you pick up your phone Do you have other kids? Yeah, I have two others. Okay, so yeah Yeah, this is a genius The other kids are gone. It's just her now The whole thing was that first of all she wasn't the future in person and my kids really take that personally like when I I'll switch it randomly But like if they if they pick up the phone and it's maverick it's not my They're like The point of that story is that apples technology so ubiquitous and it's so it's so tested and hardened and their patterns are so Their culture has been layered upon layered upon layered upon layered upon this so long right that it's like It's in everything that they do is inevitable, right and and and and and if you go back to the WDC conversation They introduced so many things that know that either they're perfecting something that someone else couldn't get to market or they're Introducing a totally new concept that it's just it's just hard to think about a scenario where these guys aren't gonna be your main Interface to so many different technologies from here to god knows when what did you see the calculator? Oh, that was that was amazing Texas instruments is gotta be like all right There's 86 has been So I was watching during that moment is so they go all new for the iPad a calculator and I thought they were joking Yeah, I was like seems so doma for right so dumb a first but only apple would wait 12 years to build the calculator For the iPad because they're like know what we're not just gonna enlarge the screen right? We're not doing that We're not gonna make the e and all those stupid letter things that I don't even know what do they're like no We're gonna swipe to this new screen and you're later gonna be a sketch out entire Yeah, math matter that that was very problem. That was a very cool solution It's a probably like when I saw them like yeah, that's cool But man like then following up afterwards everybody was just like oh my god This is like really really when she put those she drew those three little pictures and she had three variables sitting on the screen And then she's like oh let me draw draw drag this logarithmic chart right onto the screen and all three of those variables are bound to the chart And then she taps the number with the apple pencil and it brings up a number dragging UI right and she just drags Her thing to the right and it starts ticking up the numbers. I was like stop stop I'm so excited for like the advances that kids and parents all that are trying to help their kids with homework Like I remember in high school my physics teacher was like hey you can use MATLAB if you want If you can if you for it's basically cheating if you know how to use MATLAB in physics I didn't do it because I was like this program is not approachable for me But fast forward today. It's like they're making very approachable easy to use programs I can do some advanced math matter that's one of the biggest things that I have an issue with in the schooling system so It's apple products are expensive. Yeah, and Kids in public schools my kids go to public schools their school is one of the night like everybody loves their school It's a high rated school, but it's it's a public school with state funding and they use crappy Chromebooks That they've been passing around for the last four or five years and that is not a good interface for learning It's just not I mean the the the mouse is that the thing doesn't move. They don't learn it. They're not like they're not They're not more productive on these tools. You give that same kid a MacBook error or an iPad and they're Probably just watching YouTube videos But like if you give if you give those same kids, you know, you go over to Park Tudor. They got it They guarantee they got iPad pros and Apple car the car You know what I mean? Oh Wilson my kids are also in public school. They've had iPads Fortunately, okay, yeah, so they're younger so maybe that's part of it. They're not actually typing yet They need to get those kids on iPads. Yeah, you know what I mean? And that's a little bit of a concern for me I want to go back to your comments a little bit about Apple and And I think you used a word but but bold They're doing like bold things that other people Couldn't do or haven't done yet And I think that's an interesting angle to examine AI through and the transformation The whole economy is going to go through with AI is the bold will win It's interesting your client the insurance company is working so heavily with AI. Yeah, because I think most enterprise companies Are scared to death. Yeah, they're company. They're like what about there's a lot of risks where you got data leakage You got biosepriose problems You've got all sorts of privacy issues and let alone how you're using people's data But if you're medium-sized company and you just charge straight ahead and boldly figure out So you know, maybe you make some twists and turns along the way to find the right path but you could there's going to be some winners and losers The next few years and I think the ones that are bold and and figure out how to get it done and try it Well, people ultimately be the early winners. So so I'll give a little insight into this insurance company that I've That I've had now for like eight years. They've been inclined to mine So part of the insurance the problem with a lot of insurance is that you need to know when you should go try to collect money from the other party Or not right and so it's called subrogation and it's basically where we say they're at the other party was at fault We should go try to collect some some money for the accident or whatever happened um and what we're trying to do is we're basically taking so they have their their their insurance claims Adjusters and all that they're just basically taking these notes writing them in and just playing text And so now we're using large language models to basically take that text out Identify who was really at fault? Were there any force? Measures? Were there any active gods that were involved? You know what all things and these large language models are actually really good at being able to extract the meaning Say here's all the different drivers. Here's the cars they were driving I've now got a thing where I can go and I can like look up recalls for those type of cars and things like that to pull it in because You know potentially a recall in a car that hasn't been adjusted could cause an accident So then you need to go after Nissan because of that or whatever it might be So these things are I will say it's been it's been very Especially like when I start talking to the people who've been doing this for like 20 30 years And I start kind of getting their their their thought processes of how they go through this and I try to take that I translated into a prompt and now next thing you know you've got this prompt that you can basically give this document You got to give it the prompt and you come out and you'll be like yep this person's at fault Here's why here's what it is and blah blah blah We just we just literally cut off two three four hours of their time to be able to use a large language model to study those notes Then them doing it themselves and it's magical Yeah And 4.5 million people just lost their jobs We're gonna lose a lot of jobs Uh the thing you didn't mention and again we were talking with us earlier is automation where like Languages can call functions. Yeah function calls are built in the most things that's the next that's the next year Yep. Yeah, it's gonna get crazy. Yeah, the standards are being built now. It's about doing stuff with it like You know switch the models out whatever but right doing something with that with that data is very important I think for you know, so so we talked about we talked about Apple I think the highlights as if you're if you're just getting to what happened this week go check out Image dammit what it's called The gen gen gen gen moji. No gen moji's so generate any emoji you want for the rest of your life I'm excited about that one. Yeah image playground So apples image playground which is built as an API or and integrated into their core applications You have the app intense which is something you've been able to use for a long time But now it's getting integrating into Siri and AI and developers can utilize these APIs now on the beta as with xcode Getting it into your apps ready for iOS 18 we talked about AWS and the fact that they're they're really Investing heavily and getting people's to start using their data and applications inside of AWS which we think is a really Do they have a name for that real quick? What are they calling that that program that they're dollars invested into Probably something that sounds real similar to three other things They all do we should we should we should we will and don't trust a doby but If you're integrating AI into your product, you know think about the data place think about what unique data you can provide So that you can kind of Navigate this and compete outside of the the commodities and the things that are going to get consumed by big tech like image generation And just you know personal computing. Yeah, right? So And James for your so you're doing you're doing AI consulting now How can people find out more about what you're doing? So I'm doing AI products product strategy consulting So I help companies figure out To your earlier question Jacob how do we get new revenue? How do we expand existing products? How do we Automate existing processes all those things transform our business? So it's James Payton.com reach out to me So primarily small medium-sized existing companies Probably some tech companies, but anyone trying to just you know If if you're not full time in this space You miss a lot of the things we just talked about exactly and and I'm just helping come in there short term give a little helping hand and And then you know your full time people can do the rest awesome. That's awesome. Well, this has been the big cheese. AI podcast. We'll see you next week