s03 e03 – STARGATE, DeepSeek, and Tech Billionaires

Welcome to the big cheese AI podcast. I'm here today with the same old dudes that I'm here with every week. Well, hello. We're here out here a mass av on a Thursday. I believe it's the January 23rd. And it's some unexpected snow to that. The Esom snow, not like Pensacola or Destin. I don't know if you guys paid attention any of those things, but that's been hilarious. Like the beach shots of all of the snow, like Destin and Pensacola just got slammed with snow. Like almost some blizzard level, like driving down the roads. Imagine that in Florida, having that much snow. And it's, it's been hilarious. I can't imagine what a snow plow was making in Florida. Like, like, like, like, how many people have like there's not many people in the Midwest that even have snowblowers. No, like, like, like, think if someone had a snowblower in Florida, they'd be looked at as a god. Well, they'd be looked at as a crazy person. I told you we needed this global warming, maybe all the Midwesterners that moved to Florida, then just brought everything. They're like, I've got a snow plow. Denny, my neighbor, actually, so I'm finally happy to be able to laugh at Denny, but I don't think it hit them. They're, he moved down to West Palm Beach. Yeah, I'm hoping that he just gets slammed because, yeah, he was my next door neighbor and now he's down there. So today, we've got a interesting show. We've got some pretty overwhelmingly big news that we had to cover. So we're going to talk a little bit about the Stargate company that is supposedly being created and supported by our new, newly elected president and federal government. We've got the DeepSeek R1 model, which has kind of taken the internet by storm, which is a open source model out of China, which, by the way, I didn't even know it was from China until today, which makes me ignorant. I thought it was something like academia. Okay. Yeah. Unless you ask about the, you know, Tana Man square. Yeah. Yeah. And we also, we also have just an ongoing discussion about our, our journey as developers with AI and it's been, it's been an interesting couple of weeks and a couple of months talking to AI, working with AI every day. For those of you that don't work with AI every day, you know, I don't know. I don't have anything to say to you. It's for the people that do. You're not listening to the podcast. So, you know, it's really fun. Yes. But for us all three of us, I mean, most of my friends that are, that are developers, people that are, they're working in, in my field, specifically are, are literally talking and working with AI every day and, and to talk going back to two, two years ago when we were just talking to chat GPT, you know, asynchronously. Now it's more embedded in our jobs. So let's just, let's just kick it off though. Let's kick it off with the, with the, I want to get everybody's take on this Stargate thing. So you have, here's the, the juxtaposition of this whole thing is we're at the White House. What was Trump inaugurated Monday? So what was this Tuesday? Or no, Wednesday? You got Sam Altman, Larry Ellison. I don't even, it was even there. He probably was out on his yacht. Yeah. He was there. Larry was there looking like the crypt. You've got, I will not say his name correctly, the, the, the, the soft bank guy, a Japanese guy. Right. That's the, they're, yeah. Yeah. No, he's not. Yeah. It's a my Yoshi kind of name. Okay. That, that's Japanese. It's got to be. It definitely is. Anyways, they're at the White House and they're like, and Trump's talking about this $100,000,000, $500,000,000,000, that they want. So they, what they want to do, what they're saying they want to do is invest in AI in the United States and, and, and make a commitment. And we, we talked about a little bit in our podcast last week, which we, we saw this vague economic report come out from Open AI. They're like, the economy, we, you know, we, we need this to help our economy. But in order to do that, we need to build, we need lots and lots of your money. We need money. And we need to build these data centers in this infrastructure to support all these things that we're going to do with AI. But the Stargate thing was weird. And it's, they're creating this company. And it, it, it, it kind of, I mean, is, is it a company? They're creating a company called Stargate. It's going to be called Stargate. It's going to be called Stargate. And, and the money is coming in the, the operation, the financial operations are going to be managed by soft bank, but the, the, it says the technical operations will be managed by Open AI. And I, and I think, Oracle providing the infrastructure. That's what they're saying, which is kind of weird, right? Because obviously you have my, so, so, so a couple companies that are absolutely have been, been missing from these conversations, which is Microsoft and, and Google. Google is nowhere to be seen in this conversation. Microsoft obviously, obviously through a, you know, proxy through Open AI. But if we're, so like, it's kind of curious, like where this all kind of lines up, who the company is, are these new models? Is this something, is my $20 a month that I'm paying to a chat GBT? Is that going to go to this? Like, there's, there's so many unknowns. And it is just like, and then you have Elon coming in out of the fucking love field. Like, as soon as they make their announcement, Open AI does this long post on X about like, here's all the benefits. And then Elon comes in. It's like, they don't have the money. Well, let's, let's start, let's start with the, with the money. Because the, the strategy to me is pretty clear, which is, and I wanted to pull out my notes here, the strategy to me is pretty clear around. I think Open AI wants their own infrastructure and they don't have the money to do it. They learn, they're lost $5 billion in, in 2024. They're renting servers from what? From, from Microsoft, or they're lending them over, you know what I mean? They don't have the, they don't own the infrastructure. And, and, and they think they've convinced everyone that they're the only company that can do all this stuff. I know, but, so, and that's the part that I'm, that I'm struggling with with this whole thing is like, why is Open AI the only fucking AI company here? Because the fact of the matter is, is that I've, I've kind of fell in in love with, with Anthropic. Like, Claude 3.5 Saundit and I now have a very, why, why does the, why does the US government, Jacob need to, are, are they picking a winner? Do they need to pick a winner? Like, what, what do you, I think these are billionaires jerked. Like, these are billionaires doing what fucking billionaires do, right? And it's billionaires being like, oh, well, we care about you. We're going to help you solve this problem. We're going to solve cancer. We're going to do this. Just give us 500 billion, or if I give us 500 billion dollars, and we're going to build all this stuff for you because we like you guys, right? There's no different than Steve Jobs saying that fucking nobody wants video on an iPod. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a goddamn red herring. And, and, and I don't know what it's a red herring of. I just know I don't trust those. It's always, and so if you look at what they said, right? Sean was talking about, you talk about job creation. Yeah. So what we've heard so far don't have a lot of details. 500 billion dollars in the future job creation. Lots of jobs. Hundreds of thousands of jobs. Sure. But they, but if you did the math, like, what is it actually equate to? And what are these jobs? And like, what's the, the objective? They server man. Yeah, guys, but I'm not seeing the government connection here because the government's not putting up this money. This is, this is coming from private investment. And, and I think that regulation, regulating the whole thing. So basically what the government is going to do is they're going to give them immense green light green green light all the, the, so, so that what, what, what was the first thing that Trump did when he became president with AI? He repealed Biden's risk protection executive order, which I don't think anyone was paying attention to. They begin with, which is a similar thing to the EU with less, with less teeth, right? So we need AI to be responsible and not have bias. I mean, there was so, you know, when, when two years ago, the bias thing was really, it was really a problem, right? And people didn't even talk about it anymore. They don't talk about a lot of that stuff anymore. But I'm just, I'm the lack, I'm lacking to see that the government involvement in this. And you would think that you would think that if you're, and you know, people just think of Trump talks, it's his money, it's his come, you know, like, he didn't announce any investment, which I'm actually kind of glad that they didn't. I don't need to pay for opening AI's profits. But here's the, here's the thing that, and this is why I had my notes out. This is the thing that I think is what's really going on. And that is, I don't really believe that anyone has the money that's needed to take a big leap ahead in the AI race. I don't think there's enough capitalization or free capital available in the market. And I think the only people that do have it are the Saudis. And that's who no one talked about in this deal. They said soft bankers doing the financial operations, open AI's doing the technical operations, Oracle's going to do the infrastructure. And, and, and, and they're going to start with a hundred billion dollars. That hundred billion dollars is coming from the Saudis. The Saudis are going to have at least a 50% stake in this whole fucking business. Why do you think that? Well, because they're the ones with the money. I know they have the money, but they didn't, like, Saudis have been mentioned in any of those. They've been absolutely mentioned in their work. Yes, MGX. Look it up. Okay. Okay. Okay. So in the first sentence of the press really, of all the most of the news articles, it talks about a company. They don't mention it the rest of the article. But MGX is the investment arm of the Saudis. It's the trillion dollar. It's the trillion dollars. Well, it wasn't all I'm in looking to them originally to help fund open AI. They were already not all looking at their, I mean, look at, look at, they're on the cap table of tons, tons of Silicon Valley companies. They're on the cap table of slack. They're on the company. They, I mean, they are ton of slack. But at one point, he was like, oh, we have to raise a hundred billion dollars to build power plants and shit like that. And I think a lot of that money was projected to come from nobody once. If, if, if Donald Trump sat up there at a press conference that we're going to bring in a hundred billion dollars, Saudi oil money to invest and own AI infrastructure in the United States. How do you think that would play out in the media? Yeah. Yeah, the hundred percent, right? Like they would, yeah, they would slam it. I mean, wouldn't they? I mean, fundamentally, like, who's re, do, do, though, does that foreign entity have any interest in American job creation? No, no, they have the next gap. It's just the next oil, right? Like, how can we, the next generation of people, right? I mean, it's the same thing what's happening. It's like private equity buying up all the homes in America, China buying all the farmland. And now it's Saudi buying all the, buying all the data centers, we're all building all the data centers. And we're all being sold to the highest bidder. We are all for sale. That's it. And that's, and that's the worst part. And there's, there's a whole lot of nefariousness. If, if you ask me, when you start getting into work, a government is wanting to build these, you know, I heard they were like literally million square foot data centers that are AI powered that literally, and then, and then you have Ellison, or what's it? Larry Ellison. Larry Ellison. One of the richest men in the world, who's very fond of like, we could do a surveillance with AI, and we could watch the police, and we could watch the people, and we could have this unified, happy little Eden, right? And now he's involved. So I'm just like, oh my god, like, that's scary as shit. So there's, that, like, I feel like we're potentially building the next thing that's going to be watching all of us at a, at a level of personalized privacy of destroying AI-driven agents that could literally watch us at levels that we've never even considered. I, I have no comment on that, but I, I think that it's, I think you're off your rocker. But what does my mind go to? Where's the job creation? The job creation is in the construction. The job creation is in the real estate. That's where you do a lot. You make a lot of money. But people who are going to have to maintain the servers and keep that shit up, there's, there's not going to be a single, there's not new creative things that, I mean, I get, but also on the back end, like, okay, they're going to make, they're going to make near-term jobs so they could write a report that says, oh, we made a hundred thousand contractors that built the warehouses or whatever. But the people who are going to be raking are going to be the infrastructure providers. So if it's Oracle and Vidya making the chips, like, we are probably going to be paying it as taxpayers. The government's going to be like, oh, we need our LLM for our IRS so we can run more efficiently. And they're just going to throw money at it. I think the whole thing that the Stargate thing to me is picking winners. It's giving OpenAI a blank check, a blank check to build their own infrastructure. We're going to solve cancer. And I just don't like you said before. I'm not sure OpenAI is the best that they shouldn't be, they shouldn't necessarily be picked as the winner. Meanwhile, in China, you've got guys with underpowered chips developing models that are on power with 01. So let's just break off to that. So one of the things we talked about in a previous episode was that we basically blockated China's ability to get the good stuff. Well, they went and did what China does, right? And this is, this is my brief understanding of it, but basically they built a model and they're doing it on, but they're doing more with less. Yeah. Well, all the smaller models are getting better now. I think a lot, I don't have my notes on me, but LLM is like 7 billion parameter. Their newest version, like 3.5 or whatever, is outperforming on all of the metrics and tests. They're two models ago, right? That was like 700 billion. Don't quote me on those numbers, but it's like a tenth of the size model that's performing better than the old one, which is great. You know, we can run that as we talked on our last episode. We can run that on the edge. We can run that on device. But as you were talking, that means the larger like all-encompassing models are just becoming less valuable, right? Like there's an open source or smaller model that can run on device. Like that's a huge threat to these infrastructure providers, right? Yeah. And they're making a huge bet. So America is essentially making this huge bet on, you know, over, overpowered AI, centralized AI, right? Where it appears that if you let the free market live out a little bit, you know, the capabilities may be on par. It's a little more decentralized and it's a little bit more focused on the benefit to the consumer and the individual versus having all this stuff concentrated in one state or one data center, right? And so you look at the, I mean, I think that people are dumbfounded by this deep-seek thing because what? You can run this thing. It's open source. And it's China. It's okay. So let's talk. Yeah. So what was interesting about it is I, so I did download, they have it now with Olamas so you can download it on your Mac and you can run it. So I downloaded the 7 billion parameter one and I went through and I asked it how many Rs or in strawberry and it went through and so for anybody who's not familiar with the way that it works and O1 does the same thing. It basically starts off by thinking. And the first thing that it tries to answer is like, hey, think through what this answer is. And it goes through and it's like, hey, the user's asking me how many Rs or in strawberry. It's like, well, that's silly question. Why would they be asking me that? Maybe this is a trick question. And then it's like, I'm going to break this down. Okay, the first letter was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. Which is why when you ask O1 questions, you just sit there and piss for one second. And it's just thinking. It's just thinking. It's just thinking. So they had the same thing with this new reasoning model. There are one in it and it thinks and then it answers. Now the 7 billion parameter I just posted up on LinkedIn, it went through the whole reasoning that came up but that there's two Rs in strawberry. Right. So I get got it wrong. Now apparently the 450 billion parameter model won't get it wrong and that's the one that runs up on their API. But the local model does get it wrong. And now it goes through though and it's hilarious. If you actually read through it, it's like, oh, well, wait a minute. Maybe there's a trick here. So in the deep, this is the deep seek. Yeah. One thing. The one thing people are talking about on the internet with this model is that it'll tell you what it's thinking while it's thinking. Yeah. And that's what it does. So so it basically starts off the first response ends up coming back. It's like an XML almost where it's like thanking bracket. And then it's like, here's the reasoning, reasoning, reasoning, reasoning, thanking. And now I'm going to give you my answer. So when you actually call these things with your APIs, like you have to you have to you have to kind of like parse that out. Like if you don't want to have the reasoning being as a as a thing within your experience, then you need to pull it out and like account for that. But yeah. So it goes through its thinking thing. So I mean, it's hilarious. It goes through and it's like, well, wait, no, that's not right. Now wait a minute. What about what about this and what about this? And you see it kind of trying to go through to figure out it's basically like like a frigging eight year old who isn't sure of himself exactly not sure of himself and constantly just like double checking and going, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. So is it fair to say that the reasoning models that they put forth to date are basically just prompt layers that are just basically saying, hey, don't just give them the answer right away. I think it's like a net bounce it back and forth like a like a tennis match. Until until you think until you've convinced yourself you have the right. There's a meme of it with like when with a chat, you be the oh one and it was a turbo on top of a turbo on top of a turbo on top of a turbo on top of a turbo. And that's all it really is. It's just okay. Instead of one prompt that we're going to ask it, now go go think about this. Now go think about this and now go think about this and now we're going to now give. So you might have like 13 14 15 different prompts going on to basically give you the answer. So it's not like it's just this magical reasoning that's happening within just a traditional transformer model that we have the application sitting on top of it that's doing a lot of that kind of like, okay, let's let's let's give the model more context as it's trying to answer. Again, the big thing though is that transformers 2.0. So so Google created the transformer model. I Google created this and they didn't they did not open AI completely just took it and ran for the hills right. So like they made it work. They made like the transformer model is is 100% because open AI made it work. But Google created it. There's a new one though that Google has created which is the 2.0 model. And this is one that actually can like because once you train a model, it's pretty much set right in the traditional thing. Like that's what my knowledge is only stuck at you know, 2024 or whatever the fuck it says. This new one's going to be able to modify itself and be able to learn and to be able to adapt. So again, the fact the fact that we have now opening AI who pretty much is just using the the the base shit that Google came up with you know seven seven eight years ago as like the foundation for Stargate. And Google is nowhere to be seen in here. And Google is like, Hey guys, we've created the new version of what the new model is going to be like there's just so much fuckery in this whole thing. Well, go back to like a week ago. I don't know where you guys there was some stuff on Twitter about how like Altman's going DC and having a secret meeting with the senators. They must have achieved AGI. Did you see all that stuff? Yeah. Yeah. And and and it was like, no, he's going to Washington to to convince them to pick a winner and get involved in this $500 billion deal. So yeah, all grifters. What the billionaires are all grifters and I don't trust any of them. They're all fucking evil and they just want to make their money. And that's what it comes down to guys. It's just like and and we'll be like, Oh, look, Elon, he really cares about us. All these guys, they care about they do not give a shit about us. They care about their fucking pocketbooks. They care about making their moths bigger. They care about solidifying their positions. And if we all have to go down with it, they do not care. And we got to get out of this monster that they care about us. I think we all still agree. We also need to get out of the mindset of like the more money that we talked about this last week, but I saw someone on LinkedIn who was like, you know, I won't mention what they were defending, but they were defending musk. And they were arguing. It was hard out there. argument was and they said, Oh, I bet your I bet your net worth is in even approaching 1% and I was like, who gives a fuck what his net worth? That's the way you value like, Oh, he must be the smartest person in the world because his net worth is high. Like I saw that on the LinkedIn lunatics on the subreddit LinkedIn lunatics. By the way, if you haven't ever seen that on right, it is it is hilarious. But so I want to ask you guys a question because we've been talking about the bigger the model, the better, right? Like the people are just trying to achieve this. Like how can we get the most all encompassing one shot model that's like asking anything that gives you the right answer? Google's approach was a little different. I think it was towards the end of last year that it was basically like a gate in and then it picks the appropriately fine tune model. I don't know where they've gone with that. I haven't really checked up on that. But like, why are we still talking about a single model when people are having so much success with fine tuning it to their specific data sets? Because there's got to be it's the race to agi. It's the race to agi. It's the race to agi because it's not better. But but the race to agi is not a race that we know the outcome of because they won't get there because right right now like so it's going to be one of those things is going to be a very defining point in humanity. Like is is that right now we think that if you can just put enough development and enough horsepower that all of a sudden you're going to be able to generate what happens in the brain, right? And we're talking about things that we don't I think what's going to happen is that the intelligence is going to be way way deeper, way more consciousness just by itself is going to be way more deeper, way more complicated than we ever imagined. That's just not a phenomenon that bubbles up through a level of complexity. Right. Well, we've already run out of data that we can train it on. So they're talking about synthetic data. We're we're at that point. The analogy is like when CPUs couldn't be run any faster, right? The clock cannot go any faster. The the transistors cannot get any closer together or it's getting any smaller. So you have to you have to trick the cache that will only be two cache all that. It's like how many iPhones can you can you keep iterating on before people are like, okay, I've seen this before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm just like, what do we? I mean, I so so let's compare this let's compare this to our to our journey though because I think that basically what we're saying is that there's an argument that we're not close to AGI. Let's go down that path. Okay, let's go down the path that we're not that close to AGI. So every single day I'm interacting with a large language model. It's big. It's clawed 3.5, whatever this stupid name name. I pay attention to names. It's good for coding. And so I'm building a mobile app right now. You're building a mobile. Mine my mobile app needs happen to be built on react native with expo as the framework. Not only could I not get keep clawed on task when it comes to staying within the rails of what I wanted it to do, it would completely swap out it's frameworks on me like left and right. Like, oh yeah, good. Let me just install these 16 different. Let me install express. Do you only don't install express at one point in the in the problem. So I was doing the whole like one shot this thing. So I was just a start and throw it away, start and throw it away like probably 10 times I threw away the entire project and started over, which I think is a good approach when you're developing with AIs is try to one shot it, meaning like like like don't try to like go down the path of when it makes a mistake have it keep correcting on the same mistake over and over. You'll get you'll get stuck in an endless loop. If it's not working, throw the baby out with the bathwater and start over, which is kind of what you did except for you were doing it for days. I'm more like I have yeah, yeah, I'm I think within I'm these are talking to me at least like 10 15 minute iterations that I was I was a 64 hours. Right. Yeah, you're you're a psychopath. But the the there was a point at which I'm doing this. I mean, I had to go hey, um, Claude, um, this is a native app. This is not next to yes. This is not web. Like at some point and I'm sitting here going, there is no like sure, okay, cursor is the is the ID and their context is purposely limited. So there's so many things that I could say right now that I'm that that could I could have mitigated right by having better context, giving it a better pre prompt, doing all this stuff. But at the end of the day, like this isn't a GI. No, it's just really good at, uh, it's just it is really, really good at assisting a human in doing its job better. And so for me, like my journey is all the more reinforcing that, uh, uh, expert in their field is going to be an expert in their field the next tomorrow and the next month and the next year and the next five to 10 years. Yeah. Well, it's similar like you wouldn't put a junior developer, um, on a, on a, you know, feature a super important feature and say, hey, start to finish push this to production, we trust you because the small, the chances that they get it right or small and the chances that they have an issue that propagates to the whole thing or larger, right? But you would give them a small task with guidance. Then I think that's where we're at right now. And we've gone through the whole hype cycle over and over again, it feels like and we're back to, you know, we're at a higher point for sure. We keep getting to the higher point, but we keep thinking, oh, well now it's perfect. I don't need anybody anymore. Then we come back down to reality, right? So like, so it seems like based off what you guys are saying with these big models, you say, why am I not using a more tip fine tune model? Well, you know, why are we talking about focusing on, you know, uh, rag with my data? That kind of stuff like for companies. And it seems like there's, there's two, there's two things going on. One is practical and one is just a bunch of billionaires trying to make money. So the, the practical thing is LLMs are here and they help people. They help people do their jobs better. The shiny pony is, is AGI. Yeah. The shiny pony is, let's build these unbelief, let's, let's invest it. Let's mortgage our entire company. Uh, let's mortgage our entire country's future on building this all knowing God, but they can't even tell you what the fuck that means. Like, and that's the piece that's the most frustrating about this is that what is AGI? Right? So we have this artificial general intelligence. Okay, great. So are we saying that this is an AGI that is smarter than humans? Okay, what does that actually mean? Because there's people who are fucking smarter than me who, who can't do things better than me. So like, what does it actually mean? And, and that's the piece that I don't think anybody can actually define is like, when we start going through and saying what is intelligence? Intelligence is really dependent on the thing that you're trying to solve. Like the problems that you're trying to solve is, is how well do you do it? Is it a creative problem? Because right now you could very well see that if, if we don't keep designers who are like, who are really trying to push the envelope, right? Design stops in 2003. Because every time I just ask, Hey, I need you to build me this new interface that does this and this and this. It's going to be modeled off some bullshit that was on a dribble from 2023 that it looks like, Oh, I think that's what should look like, right? That like, what is, there's no AGI without continued human, exactly, a company meant in advance. Exactly. Yeah, so, so, so intelligence, intelligence in our, in our model is us. We are intelligence. Like, and they're going to be like, well, this guy's going to be able to think, you know, a thousand times faster than Einstein. Okay, great. But like, what does that actually mean? Like, what is he going to do with that? Like, is there going to be anything that's going to manifest because of it? Yeah. Again, a computer, MATLAB can do derivations a lot faster than any, any mathematician. You can, you can plot things a lot faster, but it can't figure out why I wanted to plot that in the first place. Yes. So, like, what are we, why are we pretending like the computer all of a sudden, or the, or the calculator is all of a sudden going to understand applied engineering? You know, right? Like, what are we talking about? It will never paint the system chapel. It never will. Now, it could copy the system chapel. It could be like, oh, look at that. That's amazing. I'm going to take all of this and look at that inspiration and take it and do it. But there, there, there's this creative element that comes that only that, that humans design. Like, we are creators. It comes back to what, when Ben Affleck was asked about AI. I don't know if you saw that. They were, they asked him about that. He goes, my job is the last job that would be taken by AI. The level of creativity and pure human imagination that goes into making movies is in like, just because you can make a shot of, even if it's a likeness video shot of you standing on the beach, good luck making a movie out of that that someone would pay 15 bucks to go see in a movie theater. Exactly. That's not happening. Right. It's just not happening. So, but so, so, so throw a GI out. There is real impact, economic impact of AI. It's happening now and it's altering the way we do our jobs. And I do think that there's a net dramatic potential for a shift in in in white collar work. And there already is. Well, and then you don't have to achieve a GI to have that happen. 100% not every task needs to be cysteine chapel creativity. Let's all be honest, right? Like, how dare you serve your kind of like at the end of the day, I think what we're saying is like, and this is the problem is what are you you're about to replace people who have been, this is a lot of their life. Their work, right? Is this what will become menial is like, okay, what are these people going to do now? Right? And I think it's okay to be replaced with something that's not novel. But you're still displacing a lot of people's jobs. And we don't have an answer for that. And I know you guys have different opinions on that. But at the end of the day, we are going to create a system where productivity might shoot through the roof. But for certain sections, certain sectors. Yeah, there are other areas that people are absolutely going to get decimated. Yeah, there's no doubt. I mean, there's so to pretend that AI is not going to impact jobs would be ridiculous. Like, we know that it's going to absolutely do it. I think the key for anybody whose job could potentially be replaced is trying to figure out how is it going to be? And can you be the one who's controlling the AI, right? Then the battle just becomes for survival. And that there are going to have to be people that have to work these AI's. Like, no one's just, there's not going to be an AI that just magically knows how to do, you know, like metal bending, right? It's going to need to have a person that's going to basically train this AI. So if you're a technologist or if you have any, any passions of technology and you have an ability, realize that you're going to need to now be fighting and basically be like, I'm going to be the guy who's going to be working the AI and training the AI. I think where this goes wrong though, and what scares me, and I've never been like an anti billionaire anti market guy, but like I think the where this goes wrong in terms of AGI or or or the future of work is if you consolidate all this stuff to a to five billionaires that want to do project stargate. Yeah, you just built, you know, you just built a you just built a system where there's four winners and everybody else works for those guys. And they literally were all there at the inauguration. It's like that's like that scene from 1923, the Yellowstone offshoot where they're where they're the guys like, they're like, what's this? And he's like, well, this is a refrigerator. And they're like, yeah, what do I need? What's that? And he's like, well, you put your you put your milk and you put your stuff in it and keeps it cold. And like, what's that? He's like, it's still a washing machine. Put your clothes in it and it washes them up. And they're like, huh? And then he's like, there's homes all around New York that have electricity every home in New York. Electricity has electricity. And the the farmers in 1923 just look at the add to go, if we had to buy all this stuff, we don't work for ourselves. We work for you. And by the way, he was renting them. Yeah. Because that's then they rented those thing to people. You couldn't buy it because it was too expensive. So you rented it, right? And it was like, these people were like, I don't want to be like the thought of being dependent on someone else was unbelievable. And I think that's one of the probably the most, it's probably the hardest thing to come to grips with, which is all this technology and all this stuff that that's come out in the last 20 years. I mean, really, all it's doing is is continuing to tax the individual every month. So cable bill, your internet bill, your streaming bills, your this bill, your this tax, your this fee, you know, all this money that you get put in your bank account. I mean, it's just getting siphoned. And I wish so as a so I'm a cheap gen Xer. And so like I would much rather spend like six months building something. So I don't have to pay two dollars a month kind of thing, right? And I wish though that that I wish that we wouldn't have lost that kind of mentality where it's like because right now you can like you can build a lot of crazy. You don't have to be a developer. Like you can be even just slightly in tune with like I like to create things. And now with the way the day I work, so you can go build a lot of shit that you're going to be able to run on your own. And I know it's completely naive. I know it's not realistic. But I really do have like this deep seated feeling that it would be amazing if that AI would like empower people to once again kind of get control of their technology because it does seem that everybody just let's it go and just be like, okay, whatever you just tell me what I'm using. Well, renting everything. It's going back to that. It's going back to that same analogy. We're renting everything. You don't buy a DVD. You rent you rent. You rent the right. You rent the right to watch it whenever you want on Netflix. Yeah. Right. You don't you don't you don't buy a you know you don't buy a car. You rent the car. But let's think about this. Even if you own a home. Yeah, you still have to pay home. Yeah, home. The home is a whole other conversation that we're not even going to get into because it's a fucking ruse and we're not it yet. I'm not going to start by the whole thing because you don't own it because they can take it away from you. It's all bullshit and you still have to pay your you still have to pay your property taxes and insurance such bullshit every single month even if you don't know. Okay, but let's let's now let's let's imagine just for the the sake of putting it out into the universe to hope that maybe you could potentially manifest itself that what if we could get to a point right now we are we're all paying for this monthly bullshit we're doing this. I set up a bunch of self-hosting things. You have a couple self-hosting things. I have self- I have self-hosting things and basically what this allows me to do is it allows me to basically go and to run these services and to run these applications without having to pay anybody. I pay I mean I paid who do I pay the German company? Yeah, I have a Hearthstone server that runs all of these like my my CMS, my different blogs, my different whatever's and I pay them $13 a month and I have all these applications. Imagine being able to do that but without having to be a nerd yeah right without having to be a technologist and without having to have that knowledge of how to set it up maybe maybe AI can empower people to eventually get like we're self-hosting an AI could come together and like fucking rip this shit out from these corporate hacks. I think that well you know me I think the government will probably have to get involved so you know how there's like the right to repair laws. So like that's where that's where basically like you have to allow a thing to be repairable. Yeah I can't stop you from repairing this. Yeah like they used to. Exactly. So like imagine how hard it is to replace your battery in your iPhone because I was just talking to my oldest brother about this. I was he was like we're talking about wastefulness and like you have to buy a new phone every two years. Yeah because a battery goes bad. I was like yeah and also do you know how hard it is to replace your battery in your iPhone without breaking it and that's obviously by design. Yeah. You know maybe it's because they can make this this the case a little bit slimmer and blah blah blah they can come up with all their fucking justifications but it's because they want you to buy the new one right. Yeah. In the DVDs the same fucking thing or the streaming platform. I buy a movie on YouTube and I put it in my YouTube account. I can't share that with my family like I could with a DVD but my what I was going to get to because I'm getting into self-hosting and I think it's a movement that is happening right now. If you haven't checked out Coolify or I love Coolify. That is a orchestration layer that basically it's a you install that on the server or your local machine and you can install all sorts of like self-hosted services. A lot of like Docker driven stuff so you obviously have to be technical but not like system admin technical. It's like hey have you coded a little bit before and chat GPD can 100% help facilitate those things. So what are you running on your local stuff? Oh my thing. So like every so every blog that I've got now runs so any ghost blog that I have is running in Coolify. I've got multiple direct s. CMSs. I'm still trying to figure out I would love for it to be basically be able to replace my Netlify account where I can just like push up my things and have it just automatically deploy. I haven't gotten there yet. There's a new one that just came out that I forget the name of it but I'll send it to you after this and I'll put it in the show notes. I think it'd be cool if the government was like hey SaaS companies if you're going to provide something you have to provide a fully featured self-hosted version. Oh, free wouldn't that be sick? I don't look at what they do. I never happen. Yeah. So I don't know man I'm in a spot where it's like it's really it's very interesting to see that we now have like all the top tech CEOs standing there in the inauguration with Trump and again I have never ever made it much different than the don't be evil Google from 2000. You got Zuckerberg there was fucking super curly hair and checking out a Bezos' checker. That was the best the best the best meme or use of AI of 2025 is going to go down as the as the the faked video of him looking up looking up Bezos' girlfriend shirt. Wait was it fake though? I don't know if it was No the one where he no so the real video he just looks and goes yeah she's working Bezos because he noticed his Bezos is looking at him. He's like oops sorry I just looked at boobs and she's wearing a butt right? Yeah she's she's very inappropriately dressed for an inauguration or arguably but anyways but in the AI video it's like it's like he looks over and he's just going to just does a full face and into the movies and but I mean the look on his face was so funny and like just seefish. What's crazy though to me is that for the longest time all of the mega people that I would battle with on true social it was all about the technology oligarchs and literally every single fucking one of them standing there just in line. Here's the oligarchs of all of the tech companies sitting there just kissing the ring of Trump and I'm like how do you what how do you rectify this like like you get you don't you don't you don't change like they didn't change their mentality they didn't change their desires they didn't change anything. They are a big all of those companies and all those people even Mark Zuckerberg are all victims of what happens when you take a company public once you take a company public the market drives your company and if you're not constantly growing you are trash and so I mean apples dealing with that right now which is but there are a few but coke wasn't sitting there coke wasn't there coke was I mean and nor was there he was in the background was he yeah he was there yeah he was there he was there no he wasn't yeah he was he was there he was there he was there never meet your heroes uh he was he just got out of his uh uh let's just do be one percent better this year uh meeting with his iPhone team uh which let's just just just real quick I Apple is doing two things one they're gonna get into the Starlink business so Starlink is a is a satellite internet service provider that you on started that's doing very well they're going to do that they just invested in a company called global scape who believe who who shoots the rock who shoots them up in the space that company that they just invested in they're doing rockets no they're doing low set low earth or satellites I know but how do you get them up into the low limits you you you call you on still to make it happen but the other thing is um I think they gave up on the vision pro way too early um I think it's an unbelievable opportunity and I think maybe hopefully what you'll see is everybody that's down on this January I think you'll see some you'll see some stuff come out this year so maybe a cheaper version do you remember the Newton boys you're all you're all too I know it failed I know it failed all right so the Newton the Newton was the iPad um 97 98 99 maybe somewhere around there uh during the scully uh euro and uh had a stylus it was awful like it was awful and it was thick and it was kind of like palm privilege yes um a lot of the people who I worked on to end up going and starting palm um I think we might be at that point like where we're really kind of well most people don't realize is that that the the iPad actually was designed before the iPhone yeah right yeah they created the iPad and I think we might be there where it's like we go through this whole process of like really trying to discover what does it like to have a new device that's strapped your head we realize this thing feel like a baby walking around like that ain't gonna cut it and I wonder if we're there as as a technology with this kind of wearable interface that they just they hit them they missed the mark and that they're gonna have to go back to the drawing board well I think they meant that what they missed uh was the price point in the size of that market so like 35 yeah I think it was $4,000 I like way too much I mean it literally has to be like but the people but there's a there's a sub if you get go deep in into the reddit circles and the social media world there's some people that that are that's love it they think it's the greatest thing that's ever been made oh there's no doubt I've only done the demo something's great yeah but but if if especially today right like where people like like people don't have a lot of money people like people struggling that having a $4,000 device that I put on for you know my masturbation purposes it's hard to justify but then they come out with the they do the complete opposite they come up with the greatest computing device ever made the Mac mini M4 oh you've got one and it's the best but looking okay I think the Mac mini is the most interesting product Apple has come out with because think about what they've done they were like hey we get it you want something that's powerful small and cheap how about this and cheap relative to their other products by the way I just want to clear the air when Zuckerberg went on to Joe Rogan and said that Apple it hasn't done anything he was full of shit yeah of course they literally reinvented they're reinventing the entire healthcare system with their devices right they reinvented they reinvented they said fuck you until you guys are you guys but we're just gonna build our own silicon and build literally no one can even touch those chips for personal computing did we talk about the air pods and the hearing aid test yeah that's pretty cool like and and now the rumor is is that they're gonna completely take over the entire diabetes game with the ability to track glucose levels that'd be cool right and yeah but Zuckerberg sitting there being like they didn't even create anything it's like he's sitting there on 28 other than buying Instagram and buying these other things it's just like it doesn't even use Facebook anymore you didn't even build it no I do I mean I do just to promote your my grandmother who's been dead for five years I would be happy if Facebook just reverted back to the version they had live in 2020 2005 like it would be more it would be a better platform 20 years ago than it is today it's awful all it is is an advertising platform yeah so so funny enough going back to the TikTok thing which we haven't gone to so I don't know why would be going back to it but we're gonna go to it first yeah let's go to the TikTok thing um that it disappeared for 14 hours it's still not back on the app store oh is it no no the new one apples have not put it back on the app store okay it's it's if you have the app on your phone though right right they won't remove it so so I've got it and because originally when you launched it was like sorry this app you know it's blocked and they dropped Trump's name in there and then they're like hey it's back up because of Trump yeah they shut down their servers in the United States then they just turn it back on yeah they didn't no no no no they didn't shut their servers down dude they literally enabled a fucking feature flag they enabled a feature flag that's all it was oh yeah yeah yeah yeah you you could do in some people were able to dismiss you could you could dismiss it the video like that initial video loaded so all the servers were up everything was running this was absolutely fucking political theater and whatever worked it worked hey hey Joe look up the the the the the the name of tiktok CEO have you seen this no have you seen the congressional hearing no have you have you heard the congressional hearing with him oh yeah yeah where they were like slamming on him and he's like I'm not I'm not in China you just said they were China we'll say his name oh it's not tiktok I think we just just we did erase this it must have been uh oh so that was definitely racist um it wasn't me it was some my song line somebody had posted his name and it was like tiki tiki oh so that was fake news so it takes out comes back the fact of the matter is is what's kind of interesting is there's not nearly as much of the vitriol and and like anti right wing stuff that I would have seen before I'm not sure what that is I'm not gonna put my tinfoil hat on that is what it is um however honestly tiktok every other videos now just a sales pitch it's a it's a product that they're trying to sell you on the store it's gone to dog shit I I I've now actually migrated back to Reddit and where now I'm back on Reddit for the most part I just got to figure out how to cut down the trump stuff because it's like did you see where where on x they just made everyone follow melania jadey vance and trump no they just take that they hit the follow on facebook too a lot of people were like on facebook and all on where they're like why am I following this all that it didn't happen so one of my account managers was sitting in her desk yesterday and goes why am I seeing all this melania stuff and she goes I'm following melania trump Donald trump and jadey vance on twitter they fucking jammed they fucking jammed the follow button on people okay how many people are gonna are how many what they go well they can always just go on follow no one's gonna do anything where they got us they've got us so fucking bad dudes like I was like sitting here on facebook I requested all my data still haven't got the email by the way they said it might take a little while it's been two weeks I'm doing with the day to place anyway I'm so I was like how do I get off of facebook's I barely get on anymore if I do get a little enraged and then I just like I never mind fucked those people but still it's good for old photos you know keeping up with family oh it's you know so and so's birthday and you can do all of this outside of facebook right like so we need to I need to figure out how do I help myself get off of there and then what's the exit path for other people we actually did this as a family um and so so there was a big the facebook has been a very central part of my extended family of like as everybody right where you keep up with your cousins and your answer whatever um but my family has definitely what pretty much since trump came in my family became very much more left-leaning we were always Republican and then trump came in all of a sudden they all ran the other direction I'm just like oh but anyway they're like we need to figure out how to get off facebook and so they ended up setting up just a a chat now with rcs right with rcs you can do these group chats now that aren't as bad as they used to be when you had that one friend who was on android that was just like you know the sore thumb that started yeah yeah that we've actually now set it up there so so what's been great is now I can just go there and mute that and I don't have to pay attention to anything just as I did with the facebook one yeah we have a whatsapp group with some of my family but what's happened a signal would be another one like if you could get those people on like these like the signal one I think like signal for me is but you know your mom's never gonna know that's the issue I've had no issues it took me so I'm I am always the person people come to for technology my family like printer whatever I guess I know how to fix all that shit right but I'm like trying to like convince people to like okay go get the app and like I don't like it like you've got an app before you had your your facebook I see it yeah it's the benefit but yeah I want to get oh I get off some of that shit because it's it's it's been bad for a long time it's right it does no good for us there's a very little benefit that you ever get from any of it yeah right like and we like to sit and like oh look I'm I'm learning shit no you're not you're just fucking you're doom scrolling this is bad yeah I've been I've been completely off Facebook and off Instagram for a while oh you're off Instagram I'm completely off Instagram that's great yeah I haven't deleted my account but I have it's I haven't logged it I told you I got addicted to watching people make pizzas it's annoying as fuck because it is fun to like share your photos and have your friends see there is a value proposition that existed at one time yeah and now it's like well if I get on Instagram you know what they're gonna hook me they're gonna show me the video that's like oh that's interesting and then I'm like an hour later I'm like oh Instagram's like Instagram's algorithm just doesn't for me like the the the TikTok algorithm just hooked me like freaking coke right like that thing was just like where the Instagram just barely gets me that is the freaking TikTok though every time you're you're edging on Instagram it's like well we're at a time here um stay uh stay vigilant and don't trust anything uh that a billionaire asking for 500 billion dollars says see you next week that was a great end of you